A clip of Roseanne Barr on Theo Von’s “This Past Weekend” podcast denying the deaths of six million murdered Jewish children, women and men has gone viral. According to Von, as well as her son, the comments — in which she calls for the murder of six million more Jews — were
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it - always.”
That's such a beautiful quote, Lisa. I can always hear Ben Kingsley reciting it in my head, from when he starred as Gandhi in the exquisite Richard Attenborough film.
For anyone interested, i have a really fine (or so am told) webpage compilation on the Mahatma-- his life, teachings, and nonviolent "ahimsa" principles of following his Satyagraha (Moral Truth Force) discipline of resisting evil as peacefully as possible:
Thank you, Susan. Gandhi was an amazing hero of "engaged spirituality" on the socio-political front. A gift to the planet. The Fellowship of Renconciliation (FOR) put out a book many years ago showing how Gandhi's principles for Satyagrahis were used in different "hot spot" regions around the globe to bring peace and justice to different wars & injustices, from S.Africa to Northern Ireland, and from east to west. As should be well known, MLKing Jr and his colleagues were ardent followers of Gandhi's principles of nonviolence and peaceful resistance to racial injustice..
I have a question. At the Nuremberg Trials, Herman Goering was quoted as saying,
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
Are you at all concerned Mr. Schmidt is running this very same play here?
Thank you for your comment. I trust Steve. I have learned a great deal from him. I am grateful for his writings, his interviews, and for starting the Lincoln Project. I know how hard he is trying to make sure our country remains a Democracy. He knows as well as our founding fathers did that without free and fair and honest press Democracy does not work. When we speak to someone we must default to truth. To learn more about this I suggest reading Malcom Gladwell's book "Talking To Strangers."
Janet, While I would not dispute the raw truths set forth in today’s immeasurably painful essay, I would note I do take heart from the thousands of progressive grassroots organizations replete with tens of millions of members who work tirelessly every day to create a more cooperative, democratic world in which there is a modicum of social and economic justice for large numbers of people who feel oppressed and marginalized. Such everyday, ordinary citizens like you and me are in fact MAGA’s worst nightmare because we can rob the movement of its martyrdom, figuratively speaking, and make it irrelevant.
Many of us are struggling to understand who MAGA is, their pain, how they got in this position, their fears and their hopes, and how we align them with our own needs and fears as Americans so we can live together and make this a more perfect union. On the news and on social media, I see a clear denominator of MAGA being referred to as “the other” – a group of Americans that is so vile, so hostile, so horrible, that it’s not even worth our time to speak to them or understand them.
With the recent arraignments and legal indictments against Donald Trump, and the arrests of his most ardent supporters from the January 6th insurrection, now seems to be the best time to extend an olive branch or two, or 200, to his MAGA supporters, and get to know who they are and how we can shorten the divide between American citizens. And if the politicians won’t do it for us, now is the time for us, every one of us, to do it ourselves.
My husband and I recently had to walk to Synagogue on the declared "Day of Hate" by white nationalist groups and kept our children home as a precaution. I turned to my husband and said what is next week "Day of Death." We drop our kids off at school past police and armed security guards. We go to synagogue weekly past a swat team to protect us. This is being Jewish in America and has been since Donald Trump became President.
You ask where are we? We are here doing our best to survive like you. We have one big thing in common with MAGA, we too live and are called the "other" but for us it has been 2000 years of hate and blame for the world ills. MAGA has been lied to and manipulated and grifted upon their entire lives so please do not blame them, blame the lies coming from FOX and their Politicians.
I am but one small voice. You have a mega phone Steve and can turn the tide on this subject. Happy to discuss anytime and help however I can.
Lisa. I am just so sorry your are experiencing this. These are the tines I wish for a magic wand to swish it around and make it all go away. Your perseverance and positive attitude comes through in your writing. Thank you. Will think of you often.
That’s what every civilization said about the “other” throughout history. They can be reached. We have the power to find common ground. We are more alike than not. We can start by not calling them horrible things on Twitter like hillbillies chucklefucks stupid cultists and more. Since when do we turn our back on people being treated this way. Not since America locked up Japanese American citizens. It was wrong. Let’s do better.
I agree internment was wrong as was our treatment of Hispanic residents in the Southwest and our treatment of post Civil War blacks. Or Asians when the came into California or Native cultures pushed off their lands
If the MAGA crowd could recognize their blindness I would agree. However the current move to Trump as messiah ( the language used is appalling) that has me saying enough. It is their choice. They will need to find their way back. We can leave a light on but no more.
Thanks Liz. Respectfully I could not disagree more. We do not turn our back on a child addicted to drugs. We do not turn our back on a family member in a cult. These MAGA citizens have been lied to and grifted and tossed aside by big business for generations. Their pain is real. We should never turn our back on any American ever. We are so much better than what I see on Twitter.
Lisa, I think you’re right. If you agree with Kubler-Ross’s statement that there are only two emotions — love and fear — either leading to positive emotions & behaviors (love) or negative ones (fear), you understand that Trump followers are plagued by fears with negative emotions like anger and hate emanating from their fears. How to change that...
The answer is to love without hope of an outcome. Love, because it’s what you and they are made of. God’s image? I don’t practice a religion and I’m not an atheist. I know that if God exists God is love and if we are created by God we are also love. So just love.
My understanding is humans experience 15 emotions at once. But fear seems to trump them all, sorry for lack of a better word. Everything matters and we must speak to people's fears and needs and what I see Democrats doing is mostly speaking to needs not fears. Yet fear is so much more powerful which makes sense given our evolution. Thank you!
Lisa, please keep speaking out loud and clear on this. I know that my own family in Montana fell victim to extremist talk radio and Fox 'news' and then Oath Keepers in a nearby town over the period of decades. The onslaught of relentless media indoctrination that creates a perceived 'other' has drawn in millions of people who trusted the wrong 'leaders'.
For the rest of us to 'other' MAGA victims and berate and judge them is understandable, but perceptually limited. Hatred hurts. Love heals.
We’ve all been lied to, grifted, and tossed aside. It’s helpful to me to leave out the shoulds. Just doing unto others as we would like to be done to is enough.
It's a great mission statement and a good baseline to run a society. But much more depth and work is needed to be added to the Golden Rule. I admit it is a good start for humanity.
Maybe. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Gini Thomas and many others have been rescued from a cult. I am often attacked that being Jewish is a cult, I don't care to hear that.
MAGA is not a cult. They are a group of like minded people and their rallies are more a place of community than a cult. We all do this in our lives with religion, social groups, and more.
And even if you win the argument and say they are in a Cult then I say let's get them out and help them like Dr. Bruce Perry aided the children from Waco Texas Siege of the Branch Davidians in 1993.
My old boss has gone MAGA. We worked together 6 years. He was teacher, mentor. career counselor and somewhere In the process, we grew to be GOOD friends. Couple years ago the phone calls got wierd ....then the calls stopped. Through a mutual friend I learned he'd gone MAGA. I don't know what to do.
I would text him on his birthday to wish him well. I would ask him for a coffee date if you like him enough with the intention to have a conversation and hear him but not change his mind. The small things build trust and connection and who knows in a year or two you might make a dent in the way he thinks. But above all else, he is your old friend more than he is MAGA supporter. You can have coffee or lunch and not discuss politics but discuss your kids or recent vacation. That's my whole point. A MAGA supporter is so much more than their political beliefs and I know it I see it and experience it daily. Thank you!
Re "Many of us are struggling to understand who MAGA is": no problem: just go 10 miles outside of any major city and you'll find as many MAGA people as you'd like. Question them all you want. What you'll find is a group of ill-educated, easily-brainwashed folks who WANT to believe there's a magic solution to all their problems, which is what Donald Trump told them he'd be. Which is why they'll follow him to the ends of the Earth (cf, "lemmings"). And unless you can offer them a solution that's even MORE magical than the one Trump's offered them ("Only I can solve all your problems"; "I am your retribution"; "I'm a great businessman, and I'll run the government the way I ran my businesses, especially the casinos"; and ad infinitum), until you can overcome that, you have no hope of getting these people to stop jumping off a (MAGA) cliff.
Here is what I would say to you and anyone who disparages anyone anywhere: see their pain. Have respect for their fear of being left behind. Have respect for their pain of living poorly and seeing everyone on TV doing better than them. Have respect for how much they have been lied to and used as political pawns over the years. We would never say to a child you are stupid now go do your homework. You want to call them racists fine. Give me the ten words after that. What do you expect them to do with that information other than feel unappreciated and resentful. We would never ever speak down to anyone like this in our personal and professional orbits so why now why is this allowed. I have nothing but compassion for MAGA even though many of them want me dead. But if they heard my life story and I heard theirs we could find endless common ground to keep this country whole.
It starts small with kind words on social media and stop calling them stupid chucklefuck hillbillies. It continues with one conversation one interaction at a time. I am a mother and business owner it takes time to teach and to find connections. But nothing absolutely nothing will happen without the baseline of respect first. These people are not monsters they are doctors and farmers and factory workers and so so much more to their family their friends their community. They are not the other they are us.. Since when do we turn our backs on anyone who is being lied to and manipulated. The answer is never. At least I would never turn my back on anyone and I am certain many more out there in America agree. Please just start with kind words on social media and let’s go from there as a stepping stone please.
A lot more later, but for now: I'm not the one disrespecting these people; it's their Dear Leader (in German: "Fuhrer").
Early in his campaign, someone relayed the results of a poll to Trump.: "You're doing really well among the poorly-educated." To which Trump said, "We LOVE the poorly-educated."
Before we knew Trump had most likely never even HEARD of the word "empathy", let alone experience it, one could have interpreted his response as being, "We love the 'poorly-educated'. Therefore, we will do everything in our power, once we're elected, to make them LESS 'poorly-educated': bring broadband to them; make it easier for them to continue their education by making community college tuition-free; expand Head Start and other early-childhood development programs, to make sure the NEXT generation is LESS LIKELY to be labeled 'poorly-educated'; etc." — every one of which items just happens to be at or near the top of the CURRENT President's agenda.
Yes, that's what we COULD have interpreted his statement to mean.
Until we learned, through Mary Trump's book (and, for some of us, Bandy Lee's book: "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump"), that the 45th President was completely DEVOID of empathy; that he SCOFFED at the "suckers" who didn't "make it bigly" like he did (with an itsy-bitsy assist from his dad).
At which point, we were able to truly finish off his thought: "We love the poorly-educated. Why? Because we can grift off of them till the cows come home. We can sell them every variety of 'snake oil' we can get our hands on: Trump University; the Trump Foundation; the Stop the Steal campaign; and ad infinitum."
So, please understand: I wasn't "disrespecting" these people; I was feeling sorry for them, as I would any creature that's been wounded — by society, by a political party, by a former President, etc. Which is why I want nothing to do with that political party, that former President, and have trouble understanding how ANYONE could. Until I — and that former President — remember what these people are looking for in life: a magical solution to all their problems, which is emblazoned, in bold letters, on page one of EVERY conman's handbook!
Correct. Thank you for proving my point. A MAGA rally is a place of community. It's fun to be with like minded people like we are here in this community. But why can't we separate the performers from the audience. Especially now that those performers like Donald are losing ground fast. They need us to be kind to them and see them as fellow citizens or all will be lost soon. There is no us and them, they are not the other, they are us I promise you as i know and am related to some die hard Trump supporters.
Agreed about Dr. Mary Trump, she is the greatest myth buster of our time. Priceless.
Lisa: I'd be more than happy to "be kind to them and see them as fellow citizens."
However, as I said in my book "Enough is Enough: The Cure for Overweight and Obesity": "The problem with brainwashing is, if it's done right — and given we humans desperate need to see everything in black-and-white — 'This is definitely good' 'This is definitely bad' — rather than in endless shades of stomach-churning gray — if brainwashing is done right, the brainwashEE has absolutely no idea what's been done to him. He simply accepts as fact whatever the brainwasher has told him is fact."
Thus, no matter how kind we are to these people, or how much we try to see them as fellow citizens — ostensibly, to wake them up to what's been done to them, by Fox News, Newsmax, OAN, Trump, etc., so we can pull them back from "the dark side" — it won't make any difference: their (brainwashed) minds are set.
So, yes: be kind to them, etc. But for God's sake, don't do it for the purpose of "waking them up", because there is no word for the amount of frustration that will lead to.
P. S. For further examples of the power of brainwashing, see: the original "Manchurian Candidate", starring Frank Sinatra, Laurence Harvey, Angela Lansbury, etc.; and the Canadian film "Ticket to Heaven", starring Saul Rubinek, Kim Cattrall ("Sex and the City"), etc.
And watch Gaslight on Starz with Julia Roberts. And watch FOX News and you will see the world from their view and understand where they are coming from better. They are not stupid. They are not terrible people. They are so much more than MAGA.
Re "Victims love an avenger": which Trump completely understands: "I am your retribution."
Unfortunately, he never finishes the thought: "I am your retribution, even though I don't give a s*** about you, other than as a source of money and a vote. If ANYONE'S going to get 'retribution' for being wronged, it's ME, and ONLY me. The rest of you can go f*** yourselves!"
Of course, if he did say that to his followers, all the majority of them would say is, "Oh that Trump; what a kidder! Talking that 'locker room talk' again, like he did on that Access Hollywood tape."
Or: "There goes the fake media again, putting words in Trump's mouth that he never said, since he couldn't possibly feel that way about us! I'd better send him another hundred bucks to help him fend off those horrible media types!"
Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. These poor abused unfortunates are the ones who intend to overthrow our democracy. A democracy that countless patriots have died for. This is not the time for your campaign to coddle and cuddle these people. Have you forgotten they are enemies of America? Saying otherwise is just not true.
They are following the directions of one man and his big lie. If you watched only right wing media all day and night you would see what they see. They are being used and manipulated. Americans are not enemies with each other. That belief will lead to civil war. That is why I am speaking up now. Separate the Republican politicians from the voters please. They are not the same. You have noted multiple times you disagree so please let’s respect this public comment space for Steve and agree to disagree.
Right wing media did not resonate with me. Trump did not pull me in. It resonates with them. They were drawn to him. MAGA. They are responsible for their beliefs and behavior and for the vote they cast against democracy and the rule of law.
The Dominion lawsuit and 750million dollar settlement proves there is more to the right wing media than just conservative values which drew them in initially.
If I put a blindfold on you for years and years can you describe the tree in front of your house to me. Unlikely.
Like the other commenters, I ache for what your family and community and really all Jews are suffering in this inconceivable time. Three of my grandparents were Eastern European Jews, my dads’ folks from Hungary and my mom’s dad from Russia. I am grateful they are not alive to see what’s happening in their beloved adopted country and the world right now.
I appreciate your loving intentions and wish you nothing but success in your loving outreach. But I don’t think you will find much success, at least not as things are now. It was different for a year or two after Trump took office. I used to have friendly conversations with MAGAs back then, but the people I saw on Twitter and Facebook became ever more hostile and eventually I gave it up.
As human beings we have so much in common, just as you say. But your analogy of a hurt / wayward child breaks down, imo. For one thing, MAGAs are not all economically left behind. There are a lot of affluent MAGAS, like those who went to Washington on Jan. 6. There is billionaire support for Trump or for his policies. After the 2016 election, as I’m sure you’re aware, the political press fell all over itself trying to understand Trump voters, eventually spawning the trope of the New York reporter making a pilgrimage to an Ohio diner to be enlightened. Terms like “economic anxiety” were trotted out to explain the Trump base.
But eventually none of the theories held up, and it became increasingly obvious that racial hostility and other bigotries (seemingly the bigotries are always clustered; nobody hates black people but is entirely comfortable and respectful with other minorities) were one of the biggest drivers. When they said delightedly that Trump “tells it like it is,” they were often referring to him saying out loud what they had felt constrained from saying themselves. He gave them not just permission to indulge their own bigotry but to feel liberated doing it.
That and a keen, aggressive desire to hurt anyone who isn’t one of them, however they define that. The GOP didn’t even have a platform in 2020; policy and governing don’t interest them. They love Trump bc he hates and hurts the people they want to see hurt.
I avoid trash talking about MAGAs. My belief is, they have been emotionally co-opted via decades of right-wing media that doesn’t see political opponents as humans with differing beliefs but as Marxists, socialists, pedophiles, groomers, even cannibals (see QAnon). Ruth Ben-Ghiat, Timothy Snyder, Brian Klaas, Jason Stanley, scholars of authoritarianism, say what’s happening among these people is textbook radicalization. You might find their writing about this useful. There’s also a wonderful writer and psychologist, Elizabeth Mika, who has written extensively about the relationship between the authoritarian leader and his followers.
I honestly do not know how to have a good-faith conversation with people who see me as literally demonic, and whose rejection of facts and truth is total.
What I wonder is, how did we deal with the Germans and other fascists after WWII? There must be a model for facilitating a return to more rational thinking and confidence in truth, facts, and our institutions, and relating to the rest of humankind as creatures like themselves.
I read back in 2018 about people who had family members who fell down the MAGA rabbit hole but had gotten them back. One guy’s simple action was surprisingly effective: he used his TV remote’s parental controls to make FOX inaccessible to his father. When he complained, the guy told him they didn’t get the channel anymore. In about three months, his father returned to his pre-cult self.
Anyway, please prove me wrong. If you figure out how to bridge the abyss with people who literally think you are demonic, that you hate America and are trying to destroy it, that you are a pedophile…please let us know. I would be happy to help but right now, I see no evidence there is any desire to reconcile, only to destroy the rest of us (Ron DeSantis promised not to beat the Dems, but to destroy the left completely, in a recent speech). In the meantime, I pray for these people’s release from their fear and rage and from the ugly lies they are told 24/7.
That's exactly my point they are being lied to and manipulated so it is up to us and Steve to do something about it. Show me anything in life worthwhile which is easy, you can't. Rebuilding trust takes time and it starts small like with being kind on Twitter. I just pulled up from my feed these quotes, now pretend they are not speaking to MAGA but Jews, Blacks, Asians, or LGBTQ and it sounds pretty terrible doesn't it. There is no need for this. We need them. We need this country to come together even if the media and politicians can't or won't.
• “You can’t fix stupid but the hats make it easier to identify.”
• “Listen up stupids; innocent parties don’t agree to pay out three quarters of a billion dollars to avoid trial.”
• “A sucker is someone who supported him in 2016, a loser is someone who still does.”
Thank you for writing about your experience with us, and providing some clarity and historical context as well. Hearing of these experiences is heart-wrenching and angry-provoking. Thank you for your positive and strong persevernce!
The sickness plaguing our democracy has been weaponized and perpetuated by the grifting, disinformation juggernaut of Fox and their ilk. These disgusting and traitorous companies continually spew anti-democratic and toxic grievance and anger only to grow their profit margins. The result has been the normalization of anti-jewish venom and racial hate, which sadly, has always existed in the underbelly of our country. Unfortunately Trump and his sycophantic followers normalized it (and Fox grifted from it).
In my community of Highland Park IL (which has a large jewish population) there are police vehicles at every synagogue during services. This has really come into being over that past 8 years, since Trump, and is an abomination to our precious democracy.
Let’s remember that’s someone’s father or child, a fellow American who might have served his country or community, just like you or your family members before we call them stupid.
Give them time now, as the person they love and admire, and who made them feel seen and hopeful, over the past eight years, is starting to be held accountable for his criminal actions. But let’s be kind, patient, and persistent in this mission to reach across the aisle and start a conversation with MAGA supporters.
I have no doubt the cruel attacks and the name-calling on the news and in social media is making them feel more hurt, more isolated, and more unwilling to connect to our country as a whole. We can report, and share, the news without using name-calling or taking joy in other people’s pain and shame. We always have a choice. Let’s say to every MAGA supporter that we love this country, too, and we also want what is best for our children and our nation. We can have a conversation on what we have in common, but nothing happens with the hostility on our side of the isle. We have so much more in common than the politicians and media indicate. Thanks for your kind reply.
MAGA leaders sowed hatred and division in this country as a means to gain power and money. Do we allow ourselves to play out their PLAN as though we're actors on DJT and MTG's stage or in their colosseum, while the media rakes in more $$? NO!! Otherwise WE are also victims, and this is one significant way that Democracys are lost.
Martin Luther King, Jr. "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear."
Thank you for your reply. As a mother and a business owner it is my job all day long to lift people up and not point fingers. I tell my employees best part of mistakes is to learn from them otherwise it is double punishment: we cost ourselves money and learned nothing.
Many of us are frustrated and angry (I've been angry for years, and my health has suffered, along with a sense of joy in living.) Anger is a human emotion - a powerful one, which should not be shamed. Now, how to work through this anger, move it constructively, without creating more chaos is a worthy endeavor. Well, it hasn't been a straight line for me by any means, but compassion for what we're all experiencing can help. Thanks.
Please stay heathy, find the critical balance you need in your life. Never easy but a good time to practice. Compassion is the great door opener to start connection. More needs to be done step by step, day by day once we see every single American as one big tossed salad or melting pot or both. I know for sure we are better together.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God." You are a peacemaker. Thank you for your insight and generosity of spirit.
I’m sorry to hear what you’re going through. I agree that hate never solves anything. We do have more in common than we don’t with all others. I know what it’s like to grow up angry and afraid and I wouldn’t have been able to walk out if not for the loving acceptance and support of friends and family.
I will continue to do what I can to encourage voting and accept that those I don’t agree with and feel are evil are no different than me…I was just lucky enough and strong enough to see and be guided into another level of awareness and chose to get stronger in that space. Thanks for posting your experiences and perspective. It’s really helpful.
Stop struggling. Just think of them as the Nazi's, before the extermination camps were discovered. It will save a lot of angst. And I chose that parallel because it defines perfectly that there are some humans that cannot be reasoned with. Here's what that would sound like:
MAGA: I want to cut off both of your arms.
Normal People: No. I don't want you to cut off both of my arms.
MAGA: Ok. Let's compromise. I'll just cut off one of your arms.
Normal People: No. You will not cut off any of my arms.
MAGA: You're being unreasonable and uncompromising.
Normal People: I'm being self-protective, and therefore uncompromising, in your desire to cut off my arms. That's reasonable.
MAGA has chosen everything that they are, willingly, fully awake, and with the truth right at their fingertips. Good luck trying to understand that.
As for MAGAs, they're not deprived of truth. They choose lies over truth. They exist in a vacuum because they have consciously chosen it.
Whoa... I DID NOT say they were Nazis. But they are, by their own admission. You have seen their flags, haven't you? They follow Hitler. And make the Nazi salute. So I didn't say it. They did.
I appreciate your expressed loving nature. I have one too. But I don't extend it to evil. If you want to reach out to them, go for it. It's a waste of time. They. can. not. be. reached.
And, they don't have to be lied to. They can turn the channel to MSNBC. They're not toddlers. They don't even have to pick their fat asses off their sofa to do it. You're mistaking their "ignorance" as something that's happening to them. It's not. They're choosing it over all the other available information at their fingertips right here on the world wide web.
Above all else we must come together as one nation before it is too late. It is not a matter of loving nature but a historical reckoning of what happened before WWII. The precursors to kill the Jews are similar calling us the other and beyond reproach. We were not and neither are MAGA. MAGA is being lied to by their politicians and news sources. The NAZIS were lied to by Hitler and the German Goebbels propaganda machine. There are dozens of other historical relationships to what we are seeing now, history rhymes. I am not going to change my news sources and neither are they. And we are in a dire situation due to FOX being allowed to lie and lie for 30 years with little consequences and we see the results now.
What good comes from calling them stupid and evil, nothing.
We did not get here overnight and we will not get out of it overnight either. But a slow coming together and stopping calling them names on Twitter is all I am asking for to built trust and bridge the divide could go a long way.
If you sat down for coffee with a MAGA supporter and did not speak about politics you would agree on many issues and could enjoy discussing your family, friends, community, travel, gardening and so much more because Americans are so similar and have so much in common. There are always the very extreme of course but the majority of the so called MAGA people are just trying to get by like you and me. They pay taxes and go to work and are raising their children. Look around the world in countries with sectarian violence, why do we want that. Now is the time to prevent it. The window is closing with the upcoming presidential election and people like Steve who have the strongest voices can help make this happen.
Thank you for your comment and I am sorry for the long reply.
Where to start. I'm putting Steve aside. I think he is a good person with a political DNA that is unlike mine. I've yet to hear what he stands for, besides the constitution and democracy, though. I believe him, but those are the basics. Every Democrat supports those and always has.
As for calling "them" names on Twitter, I have no idea what you're talking about. That's not me. I have, however, seen rank and file Republicans post the most vile and threatening things imaginable.
As I see it, there is no "slow coming together" with MAGA or Nazis. We can only defeat them. And it's not me saying that they're Nazis. They're saying it. And they are - Nazis. No "Republican" has disavowed them. They have all protected them. There was a name for the quiet onlookers who did nothing while the Nazis burned Europe, and nearly an entire race, to the ground. But I can't recall what it was.
MAGA's are going to MAGA. And we can talk about our kids, gardening, pets, whatever, and at the end of the day they're going to want to control your body and continue to erase all the advances of the second half of the 20th Century: voting rights, woman's bodily autonomy, marriage equality, everything. They will not stop unless they are stopped. We have been showing them compassion and understanding for over forty years. It hasn't worked.
Thanks for reading and responding. We'll probably just have to agree to disagree:)
I suggest we stop calling any fellow American the other.
I suggest we treat all Americans with the respect they deserve.
I suggest we see how much pain everyone is in before we judge so harshly.
I suggest we stop calling MAGA stupid, hillbilly, chucklefuck, losers and worse on social media.
I suggest people are so much more than their political beliefs and we have so much more in common than we do not and we all work together and get along quite well in this country.
I suggest we do this soon and for further reference please read Tom Phillip's book "Humans, A brief history how we F'd it all up."
To see how much more complex any group is, even a hateful group, I suggest watching American History X movie to learn more how complex the issue is.
"I suggest we stop calling any fellow American the other.
I suggest we treat all Americans with the respect they deserve.
I suggest we see how much pain everyone is in before we judge so harshly.
I suggest we stop calling MAGA stupid, hillbilly, chucklefuck, losers and worse on social media.
I suggest people are so much more than their political beliefs and we have so much more in common than we do not and we all work together and get along quite well in this country."
I've contemplated a program of sorts where, say, a progressive is paired with a MAGA and they simply sit down over coffee and get to know one another, see one another as people.....multiply that over towns and regions, etc...we need some restorative humanity; this will dispel some hate...
Great idea do it, love coffee the underrated connector. You can make some Zoom meetings too. And I have no doubt you are related to and do business with some MAGA people now and may not even realize it.
A simple quick first step for all of us is to stop calling them names on social media. Why would you beat up someone who is already in pain and suffering, for some for generations, you wouldn't of course and you would not allow your children to either.
I don’t like the generalization that ‘they are in pain and suffering’ and it’s up to me (or us) to do something about their pain and suffering. How do you know they are in pain and suffering any more than you or I are? Do I want them to extend an olive branch to me for my pain and suffering? To try to fix me? No. This is a made up problem because in my view it’s supposed to be this way. I may not like it but it’s the way it is and I’m willing to look at it as it is now. Flat out. I’m willing to see if there is something I want to do about it. There is. VOTE.
Voting is great. Being respectful to everyone is also great. Let’s stop calling them stupid on social media. Can we at least agree on that basic idea to start to bridge the divide.
We will have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. Thank you for your comments. I wish you well.
I don’t disagree with your desire to have us all get along and see how much we have in common and develop that. I agree with stopping all the name calling too. Name calling is lame. I think you have made an inroad here to get people thinking about things. That is a good thing. I guess I just don’t like your generalizations about the MAGAs and that we are supposed to fix them or bridge the divide and that we are running out of time to do so, like a sales pitch. I appreciate your intent though.
The next presidential election is not that far off and if you have ever been in conflict with someone in your personal life you know how long it takes to mend fences and build trust again. Thanks for your comment. Appreciate it very much.
Hi Lisa, I'm going to quote you on what you said here, because I feel it is so very important: "MAGA has been lied to and manipulated and grifted upon.....so please do not blame them, blame the lies coming from FOX and their Politicians." and "now seems to be the best time to extend an olive branch or two, or 200, to his MAGA supporters, and get to know who they are and how we can shorten the divide between American citizens." Thank You!! Lisa B.
Of all the positive, affirming things one can do on any given day why would trying to understand an unrepentent MAGAt be on that list? My idea would be to cut the head off the snake and then allow the followers to look into themselves and tell us why they took the path with tRump in the first place and that explanation would include their life experiences that got them to that point - let them do the hard work of introspection and then seek reconciliation. Thanks for listening
I suggest reading Dr. Mary Trump's book "The Reckoning."
This goes way beyond Donald Trump due to our refusal to reckon with Slavery and Native Americans and has real consequences for all of us today.
And I would also say we have time to many things all at once including understanding MAGA and discussing the source and history of their pain and disenfranchisement.
Donald Trump is one piece of the puzzle and there are many who will gladly take his place. Please look at the polling numbers for Bernie Sanders in 2016, many millions who voted for him in the primary switched to Donald Trump and the main. That tells me there is hope for connection with MAGA and Bernie did it. Plus knowing MAGA supporters personally I know there is room for respect and connection at all levels. Your mechanic might be a MAGA supporter and he deserves to be treated with respect like anyone.
His mechanic might be a MAGA? Heads or tails, I don’t think Richard’s mechanic is a MAGA. But even if he is, why don’t you be respectful and kind to your own mechanic? And heads or tails I bet you are. My point is that people can only be as kind as they are. No kinder. The more they learn the kinder they may get …or the meaner. I like the idea of stopping the war between Americans. But it’s for one American at a time to handle that in their own way in their own time.
I take each individual as they are and treat them with respect. If my boat or car mechanic is a MAGA-er who cares? as long as they do their job (mechanic) I’m not interested in hearing their religion of “I’m a victim” and “whoa is me” then we’re good - it’s not dismissing their concerns I just think for many MAGA-ers it’s a contrived problem, so why would I waste my time helping them get well. Introspection, admit you made a mistake and we’ll all get along much better
It is WE, the Jewish People, who must mobilize as a massive voice of protest and fight this cancer with every ounce of strength we have gathered over 2000 years of being persecuted. I'm ready to fight and I'm a 75 year old woman. But I'm not going down without a fight.
"There are Nazis in Georgia. Where are the Americans?"
Respectfully I would say we need to educate and communicate not protest.
One connection, one tweet, one person at a time can make a big difference and bring this country together and remind everyone we are all Americans who deserve respect, basic human rights, and a fair playing field to work and live.
Thank you. It could be worse. It could be better. I am going to stay hopeful and grateful to live in this great country thanks to people like you and all those in this small community. One day one tweet at a time we can unite this country.
Did I ask for the names of the 2 security officers as I raced to enter synagogue today no I did not. Should I have asked for their payroll records as I raced to leave to head to a lunch we were co-hosting for children with cancer no I did not. Will I take videos of the police cars or the security guards keeping my children safe when school starts again this fall no I will not but feel free to drive by any Jewish day school anywhere in the country and you will see it with your own eyes. Feel free to file a FOIA to gather records of the bullet poof windows we installed at our synagogue with Homaland Security grants and records of police presence during the recent day of hate. Will I provide you with the massive fundraiser we recently held to raise funds to pay for the new security measures needed at our synagogue no sorry. Will I show you the email from my children's schools of the 2 bomb threats they faced last year no thanks.
If you want to have a conversation great. If you want to start this with defaulting that I am not being honest then the conversation is over before it began and I never would have shared personal informaiton like this publicly unless I felt it was of great importance.
For more information of the reason for the increased security over the past 8 years I would like to refer you to the ADL website www.adl.org as they track hate crimes in America and abroad.
Lisa, if you want to convince people of the seriousness of how bad things have become nothing says that like a photo or a video. Words don’t always convey that, especially to people who have no similar experience.
Speak to anyone living in the Jewish community in America and they will tell you the same.
A few videos and pictures from me will not convey the seriousness of this issue and the fear we are living in. I had a cousin years ago who did not believe man walked on the moon so no amount of personal pictures or videos from me will matter if someone is determined to call me a liar. Not to mention on the Sabbath I cannot take pictures or carry my cell phone.
I don't even have a facebook account and am normally extremely private but this issue is too important not to bring up to Steve and his wonderful readers, and my strong belief to stop demonizing anyone in this country even MAGA as history has proven.
Lisa, Thank you for taking the time to give me the links. I appreciate it.
Your cousin who would not believe a man actually walked on the moon? You say no amount of pictures or videos would matter since he was determined that he was right. Did he think you were lying? To me your cousin’s belief that it was a lie that a man walked on the moon is the same way MAGA believes that the election was stolen, no matter all the lost law suits and so much other evidence to the contrary. That’s why people give up trying to convince them otherwise. I could hand them an olive branch but would they recognize it as a loving gesture or would they be defensive and wary?
Respectfully please refer to my dozen replies to others on this post to answer your question. People are so smart and lovely and I did my best to reply with comprehensive answers to everyone. But the bottom line is respect. No matter what their political beliefs are everyone must be treated with respect. And we have so much more in common than not as Americans.
My pleasure. Really appreciate your kind words. Remember even with their flag you can go to your neighbors and break bread or run to do some charity work together which Americans do best. You have so much more in common than not.
There was a group of white American Nazis with giant Swastika flags in front of a Jewish synagogue in Georgia over the weekend. Where were the counter demonstrators? Read the history. Silence is deadly. Nazis must be shamed and publicly humiliated for the horror they represent.
After two Gen-Z boys, 14 and 22, told me that adult outrage over Roseanne's comments was ridiculous and embarrassing, as she was clearly kidding, I watched the complete version. There is nothing remotely funny or facetious in the way she said what she said. It's ugly, cold, incoherent word salad. Not even Theo knows that the hell she's getting at. Even if she were, in fact, joking, to put something this ugly into the world is stupid and indecent. Roseanne battles mental illness, so I guess she gets a pass, but I wish Theo, whom I like, had shown more wisdom. He didn't need to release it.
Back in the 1980s people kept raving about the Roseanne Barr show on TV. I didn't even own a TV for like 17 years (from 18-35), but at my parents' home one day tried to watch it.
I couldn't get past 5 minutes-- it was just Roseanne and others standing around slinging cheap-shot ugly remarks at each other's expense. I stopped watching and told my mother & dad, "With this kind of humor, America will fall."
I trace a straight line from that type of heart-less, soul-less, non-empathic "humor" of Roseanne Barr to Donald J. Trump.
It's all merely clever "head humor," not uplifting heart-humor.
Devoid of kindness.
Devoid of empathy.
Devoid of the healing love everyone needs to flourish and create a beautiful world together.
We need kindness, empathy, and the healing love everyone needs to flourish and create a beautiful world together. It is time to change channels in our nation and in our hearts.
Tim Ryan's talk with Steve on zoom quite awhile ago was truly uplifting. Tim Ryan is a visionary. Right now, I feel I might just stay angry for awhile :-) xo
The holocaust is nothing to joke about and the clip shows Roseanne is not speaking with humor. I can understand why her family would want to claim that her assertion was taken out of context but there is no defense to her remarks. Her statement that Jews did not die in the holocaust is particularly horrible in that she is Jewish. She appears to have lost her mind.
Wow. Powerful stuff. So I am wondering--- how much did Hitler's supporters (anyone who cheered for him) fess up to supporting him and showing contrition for doing so? My hope is that some day my Trump supporting friends/extended family members will say--- I can't believe I supported that guy, I wish I had actually listened to you and the lame stream media which I guess wasn't so lame in hindsight.
Route66Gal, that's a beautiful thought. Alas, as i've mentioned several times on these threads, the phenomenon of COGNITIVE DISSONANCE prevents most people from being able to admit this-- unless they have a good amount of psycho-spiritual maturity, and the humility and self-deprecating humor to go along with it.
Because most people don't have this kind of maturity, and because they've invested a large amount of time, money, and emotional energy into their particular cause (in this case MAGA) or person (Trump) they simply cannot admit they were wrong, but will instead engage in all those Freudian defense mechanisms i've also mentioned here (as recently as yesterday): denial, rationalization, identification, projection, reaction formation.
For decades i've studied this phenomenon in dysfunctional religious & pop psychology cults and dangerous socio-political cults like the Nazis, the Maoists, the Khmer Rouge, the Ku Klux Klan. And now we have the Trump MAGA cult.
And cognitive dissonance is holding tens of millions of our fellow Americans in its grasp.
Re remorse and Hitler, I would point you to Dietrich Bonehoffer or what the Allies did after the war with the German population required atrocities films. There were those who knew and worked against. There were those who knew and ignored and those who knew and readily joined in.
My question is always how many truly believe and how many go along to get along.
However, to this end, we like Gandhi, must speak up; we must work and support those who are doing the "hard stuff" like running for office, researching for the truth, and holding Judases accountable for their traitorous actions. Keep speaking out every day. I like to say, instead of fighting over what is right, put your "shoulder to the wheel" and work for justice and peace. Thank you for speaking out every day!
Authoritarians that hold power by stoking fear with those around them, surrounding themselves with yes, men, and destroying the guard rails of institutions that create restraints on them, cannot hold that power for long. Once the rule of law is destroyed, all it takes is someone smarter more driven and calculating to take your place. Democracy is a messy business, but it is the best we have for the human race if we can hang onto it.
Many are concerned Donald may somehow wriggle out of the justice that is due him. That’s not possible even if he is not imprisoned.
His punishment has already begun. It will continue every day from now on until he dies. It is torture for this kind of man to be caught, to be guilty and to have it be known by the majority of people in the US and in the world.
Everyone is either against him or they are deluded. To a man for whom image is the only thing that is real, this will not be survived. It’s breaking him even now.
The indictments, the court dates and the perception of guilt most people see when they look at him or think of him is weakening him gradually every single day. It’s a death curse for a man like Donald Trump.
It’s interesting that it’s happening to Putin at the same time.
Roseanne Barr is an ignorant attention seeking media whore which is a toxic brew.
Her history speaks for itself, portraying an ignorant Archie type until her genuine racism and intolerance doomed her to irrelevance doing podcasts with some sycophantic piece of garbage.
As to the history of despots, yes it always ends the same way, however before their fall they take so many people with them, death, mayhem and destruction is the common thread, and yet even after the hangings, suicides and torture of these “strongmen” they always seem to leave a portion of themselves for years to come:
Italy has a fascist clone in power, France is next, India, turkey, hungry and so many others already in the grip of fascist leaders, just a little more charming and a bit less cartoonist!!
So i agree, it ultimately ends badly for them, however just looking at America today, with a full 30% supporting an ignorant strong man, our pain is far from over, 2024 is key and only a washout of lost presidential, 10 seats in senate and 50 seats in house will expunge the gop of its racist, fascist grievance based appeal
I am in shock after listening to Roseanne Barr and the yahoo she was talking garbage with. So sickening!! After my father passed, (he was a WWII veteran) I found a scrapbook of many of the places my father went to during the war. He had pictures of his war buddies also. The picture of Musilini hanging with the others is in his scrapbook. I never knew who those people were. The Holocaust happened my father, uncles and a lot of other brave men and women fought. So many died. I am sickened that anyone would think differently.
I refuse to go with incurable but will say it has long term impacts. It will be the lost cause for the next 100 years, replacing the 1861-1865 conflict.
When we recognize there will be those holding onto their battered and torn Trump flags as trophies s and will have Trump coins hidden in case they become legal tender, then we know it will be with us in the future
That will be one person, the one that rose on the backs of the many. But what happens to them? Do they find another? or do they crawl back under their rocks, waiting for another day to rise up?
If Trump has done anything GOOD for this country, it is to uncover all the hidden truths and the loopholes in laws for those that don't give a shit about the law. I hope we recover stronger than ever with laws in place to prevent a lot of what he has done to ever happen again.
a few that come immediately to mind. Please add others as you see fit
◙ If "criminals" cannot vote, they should not be allowed to run for office
◙ MUCH stronger controls over classified information handling in Federal Government regarding national security ( I realize this can be a very slippery slope and thoughtful study needs to occur)
◙ Supreme Court Justices need to be held to same scrutiny as all government employees and those that have not followed the rules, should be ousted.
◙ Elimination of corruptible Electoral College System and revert to one person, one vote for Federal Election.
◙ ALL presidential candidates have laws to abide by or they are OUT. PERIOD. Make discovery of financials law not a request
◙ oh yeah, Overturn Citizens United and make unlimited donations illegal again and that includes NO DARK MONEY to campaigns
There is so much more, but that is what comes to mind right now. But I gotta go clean off deck for a donation run this afternoon.
While I do not want to see Trump hanging by his feet being beat to death; I do want to see him in prison for the remainder of his life.
Thank you for this. Since I am a historian who has researched, studied and written about dictators and monarchical despots, you are spot on. Very few live and those that do go into ignominious exile. Trump is too ignorant of history to understand this, as you pointed out he is mesmerized by the parades and endless lines of sycophants willing to do the dictator’s bidding that he never sees the end. Your indictment of the American people for electing him, especially the GOP sycophants that still support him reminds me of part of Milton Meyer’s book “They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-1945. Meyer wrote of one of his colleagues in the 1950s when he was teaching in Germany:
“And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jew swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.
Have a great day. Thank you for writing this and your insights into Trump and the American people. How many of we former Republicans didn’t see this coming. I think I did when Sarah Palin came along after my time in Iraq and listening to Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, and others when I realized that the GOP was losing it, especially how these people treated John McCain. It was so embarrassing. To see or hear Palin now makes me nauseous. I think that the Christian Nationalists and all of their leaders and organizations are largely responsible for the GOP’s moral implosion.
Resist the beginnings consider the end .....one of my favorite passages from Milton Meyer. So often that passage comes to my mind and I have shared it with many friends.
Yevgeny Prigozhin polled the oligarchs of Russia and had a number of them tell him that they would support him in a coup. They were fed up with the loss of freedom of travel, the loss of their financial power, and the loss of their toys, so why not.
Time for a change except, they never showed up at the party, and Yevgeny realized that he was marching to his own demise. When offered a way out, he took it.
Lisa, It's scary knowing the stress of people, who are targets to Separate, a United front. I can assure you this has no place in our home. We do Not discriminate us Americans. I am part of a lower class of ppl. in my community.
I read and comprehend what's going on in these United States. Debatable news and members of Congress, and Wealthy backers who tout lies for attention, puts undo stress on the nation. It's the reason I read and subscribe to substack.
Outrageous behavior shows just what lengths people will go to Fool a Free and not always a Fair Country. We are the voters, We are the people who pay the taxes.
I was taught in a little town, in my state, that I live in a melting pot. I know nothing else. I'm older and I never regretted getting to know all kinds of ppl., in different walks of life. Oh, the food and Conversations. Seems no matter the race, human nature is the same no matter the station in life.
“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it - always.”
----MAHATMA GANDHI
That's such a beautiful quote, Lisa. I can always hear Ben Kingsley reciting it in my head, from when he starred as Gandhi in the exquisite Richard Attenborough film.
For anyone interested, i have a really fine (or so am told) webpage compilation on the Mahatma-- his life, teachings, and nonviolent "ahimsa" principles of following his Satyagraha (Moral Truth Force) discipline of resisting evil as peacefully as possible:
https://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/Mahatma_Gandhi.html
That was a good web page of Mahatma Gandhi. Thank you.
Thank you, Susan. Gandhi was an amazing hero of "engaged spirituality" on the socio-political front. A gift to the planet. The Fellowship of Renconciliation (FOR) put out a book many years ago showing how Gandhi's principles for Satyagrahis were used in different "hot spot" regions around the globe to bring peace and justice to different wars & injustices, from S.Africa to Northern Ireland, and from east to west. As should be well known, MLKing Jr and his colleagues were ardent followers of Gandhi's principles of nonviolence and peaceful resistance to racial injustice..
Yes, incomparable love that man let run through him for the good of all.
At least there were very few people with those Nazi flags, they are NOT the majority, small consolation though.
“Be the change you want to see in the world.” (Gandi)
Hi Lisa!
I have a question. At the Nuremberg Trials, Herman Goering was quoted as saying,
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."
Are you at all concerned Mr. Schmidt is running this very same play here?
Thanks in advance for your answer.
Thank you for your comment. I trust Steve. I have learned a great deal from him. I am grateful for his writings, his interviews, and for starting the Lincoln Project. I know how hard he is trying to make sure our country remains a Democracy. He knows as well as our founding fathers did that without free and fair and honest press Democracy does not work. When we speak to someone we must default to truth. To learn more about this I suggest reading Malcom Gladwell's book "Talking To Strangers."
You didn't answer my question.
As far as I can tell, your answer could mean you're fine with him running the same plays as Goring OR you don't think he is.
Please clarify.
Janet, While I would not dispute the raw truths set forth in today’s immeasurably painful essay, I would note I do take heart from the thousands of progressive grassroots organizations replete with tens of millions of members who work tirelessly every day to create a more cooperative, democratic world in which there is a modicum of social and economic justice for large numbers of people who feel oppressed and marginalized. Such everyday, ordinary citizens like you and me are in fact MAGA’s worst nightmare because we can rob the movement of its martyrdom, figuratively speaking, and make it irrelevant.
yes it was
Many of us are struggling to understand who MAGA is, their pain, how they got in this position, their fears and their hopes, and how we align them with our own needs and fears as Americans so we can live together and make this a more perfect union. On the news and on social media, I see a clear denominator of MAGA being referred to as “the other” – a group of Americans that is so vile, so hostile, so horrible, that it’s not even worth our time to speak to them or understand them.
With the recent arraignments and legal indictments against Donald Trump, and the arrests of his most ardent supporters from the January 6th insurrection, now seems to be the best time to extend an olive branch or two, or 200, to his MAGA supporters, and get to know who they are and how we can shorten the divide between American citizens. And if the politicians won’t do it for us, now is the time for us, every one of us, to do it ourselves.
My husband and I recently had to walk to Synagogue on the declared "Day of Hate" by white nationalist groups and kept our children home as a precaution. I turned to my husband and said what is next week "Day of Death." We drop our kids off at school past police and armed security guards. We go to synagogue weekly past a swat team to protect us. This is being Jewish in America and has been since Donald Trump became President.
You ask where are we? We are here doing our best to survive like you. We have one big thing in common with MAGA, we too live and are called the "other" but for us it has been 2000 years of hate and blame for the world ills. MAGA has been lied to and manipulated and grifted upon their entire lives so please do not blame them, blame the lies coming from FOX and their Politicians.
I am but one small voice. You have a mega phone Steve and can turn the tide on this subject. Happy to discuss anytime and help however I can.
Lisa. I am just so sorry your are experiencing this. These are the tines I wish for a magic wand to swish it around and make it all go away. Your perseverance and positive attitude comes through in your writing. Thank you. Will think of you often.
Thank you. Really appreciate it.
I am sorry you had to face this. I never give up hope but am also at a stage where I am not sure MAGA can be reached.
That’s what every civilization said about the “other” throughout history. They can be reached. We have the power to find common ground. We are more alike than not. We can start by not calling them horrible things on Twitter like hillbillies chucklefucks stupid cultists and more. Since when do we turn our back on people being treated this way. Not since America locked up Japanese American citizens. It was wrong. Let’s do better.
I agree internment was wrong as was our treatment of Hispanic residents in the Southwest and our treatment of post Civil War blacks. Or Asians when the came into California or Native cultures pushed off their lands
If the MAGA crowd could recognize their blindness I would agree. However the current move to Trump as messiah ( the language used is appalling) that has me saying enough. It is their choice. They will need to find their way back. We can leave a light on but no more.
Thanks Liz. Respectfully I could not disagree more. We do not turn our back on a child addicted to drugs. We do not turn our back on a family member in a cult. These MAGA citizens have been lied to and grifted and tossed aside by big business for generations. Their pain is real. We should never turn our back on any American ever. We are so much better than what I see on Twitter.
Lisa, I think you’re right. If you agree with Kubler-Ross’s statement that there are only two emotions — love and fear — either leading to positive emotions & behaviors (love) or negative ones (fear), you understand that Trump followers are plagued by fears with negative emotions like anger and hate emanating from their fears. How to change that...
The answer is to love without hope of an outcome. Love, because it’s what you and they are made of. God’s image? I don’t practice a religion and I’m not an atheist. I know that if God exists God is love and if we are created by God we are also love. So just love.
My understanding is humans experience 15 emotions at once. But fear seems to trump them all, sorry for lack of a better word. Everything matters and we must speak to people's fears and needs and what I see Democrats doing is mostly speaking to needs not fears. Yet fear is so much more powerful which makes sense given our evolution. Thank you!
Lisa, please keep speaking out loud and clear on this. I know that my own family in Montana fell victim to extremist talk radio and Fox 'news' and then Oath Keepers in a nearby town over the period of decades. The onslaught of relentless media indoctrination that creates a perceived 'other' has drawn in millions of people who trusted the wrong 'leaders'.
For the rest of us to 'other' MAGA victims and berate and judge them is understandable, but perceptually limited. Hatred hurts. Love heals.
I am so sorry for what your family has been through that must have been awful.
Calling other Americans stupid doesn’t solve anything. It only furthers the divide. And they’re listening, by the way.
We’ve all been lied to, grifted, and tossed aside. It’s helpful to me to leave out the shoulds. Just doing unto others as we would like to be done to is enough.
It's a great mission statement and a good baseline to run a society. But much more depth and work is needed to be added to the Golden Rule. I admit it is a good start for humanity.
Lisa, people do turn their back on a child addicted to drugs. People do turn their backs on a family member in a cult.
Maybe. Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. Gini Thomas and many others have been rescued from a cult. I am often attacked that being Jewish is a cult, I don't care to hear that.
MAGA is not a cult. They are a group of like minded people and their rallies are more a place of community than a cult. We all do this in our lives with religion, social groups, and more.
And even if you win the argument and say they are in a Cult then I say let's get them out and help them like Dr. Bruce Perry aided the children from Waco Texas Siege of the Branch Davidians in 1993.
My old boss has gone MAGA. We worked together 6 years. He was teacher, mentor. career counselor and somewhere In the process, we grew to be GOOD friends. Couple years ago the phone calls got wierd ....then the calls stopped. Through a mutual friend I learned he'd gone MAGA. I don't know what to do.
I would text him on his birthday to wish him well. I would ask him for a coffee date if you like him enough with the intention to have a conversation and hear him but not change his mind. The small things build trust and connection and who knows in a year or two you might make a dent in the way he thinks. But above all else, he is your old friend more than he is MAGA supporter. You can have coffee or lunch and not discuss politics but discuss your kids or recent vacation. That's my whole point. A MAGA supporter is so much more than their political beliefs and I know it I see it and experience it daily. Thank you!
👍🏾 reach out and ask how his garden is doing. His tomatoes were amazing.
Nothing like home grown tomatoes.
Beautiful :-)
Oops. *I'll reach out ....
Re "Many of us are struggling to understand who MAGA is": no problem: just go 10 miles outside of any major city and you'll find as many MAGA people as you'd like. Question them all you want. What you'll find is a group of ill-educated, easily-brainwashed folks who WANT to believe there's a magic solution to all their problems, which is what Donald Trump told them he'd be. Which is why they'll follow him to the ends of the Earth (cf, "lemmings"). And unless you can offer them a solution that's even MORE magical than the one Trump's offered them ("Only I can solve all your problems"; "I am your retribution"; "I'm a great businessman, and I'll run the government the way I ran my businesses, especially the casinos"; and ad infinitum), until you can overcome that, you have no hope of getting these people to stop jumping off a (MAGA) cliff.
Thank you for replying.
Here is what I would say to you and anyone who disparages anyone anywhere: see their pain. Have respect for their fear of being left behind. Have respect for their pain of living poorly and seeing everyone on TV doing better than them. Have respect for how much they have been lied to and used as political pawns over the years. We would never say to a child you are stupid now go do your homework. You want to call them racists fine. Give me the ten words after that. What do you expect them to do with that information other than feel unappreciated and resentful. We would never ever speak down to anyone like this in our personal and professional orbits so why now why is this allowed. I have nothing but compassion for MAGA even though many of them want me dead. But if they heard my life story and I heard theirs we could find endless common ground to keep this country whole.
It starts small with kind words on social media and stop calling them stupid chucklefuck hillbillies. It continues with one conversation one interaction at a time. I am a mother and business owner it takes time to teach and to find connections. But nothing absolutely nothing will happen without the baseline of respect first. These people are not monsters they are doctors and farmers and factory workers and so so much more to their family their friends their community. They are not the other they are us.. Since when do we turn our backs on anyone who is being lied to and manipulated. The answer is never. At least I would never turn my back on anyone and I am certain many more out there in America agree. Please just start with kind words on social media and let’s go from there as a stepping stone please.
Again I am one tiny voice.
Thanks so much. Sorry for the long reply.
A lot more later, but for now: I'm not the one disrespecting these people; it's their Dear Leader (in German: "Fuhrer").
Early in his campaign, someone relayed the results of a poll to Trump.: "You're doing really well among the poorly-educated." To which Trump said, "We LOVE the poorly-educated."
Before we knew Trump had most likely never even HEARD of the word "empathy", let alone experience it, one could have interpreted his response as being, "We love the 'poorly-educated'. Therefore, we will do everything in our power, once we're elected, to make them LESS 'poorly-educated': bring broadband to them; make it easier for them to continue their education by making community college tuition-free; expand Head Start and other early-childhood development programs, to make sure the NEXT generation is LESS LIKELY to be labeled 'poorly-educated'; etc." — every one of which items just happens to be at or near the top of the CURRENT President's agenda.
Yes, that's what we COULD have interpreted his statement to mean.
Until we learned, through Mary Trump's book (and, for some of us, Bandy Lee's book: "The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump"), that the 45th President was completely DEVOID of empathy; that he SCOFFED at the "suckers" who didn't "make it bigly" like he did (with an itsy-bitsy assist from his dad).
At which point, we were able to truly finish off his thought: "We love the poorly-educated. Why? Because we can grift off of them till the cows come home. We can sell them every variety of 'snake oil' we can get our hands on: Trump University; the Trump Foundation; the Stop the Steal campaign; and ad infinitum."
So, please understand: I wasn't "disrespecting" these people; I was feeling sorry for them, as I would any creature that's been wounded — by society, by a political party, by a former President, etc. Which is why I want nothing to do with that political party, that former President, and have trouble understanding how ANYONE could. Until I — and that former President — remember what these people are looking for in life: a magical solution to all their problems, which is emblazoned, in bold letters, on page one of EVERY conman's handbook!
Correct. Thank you for proving my point. A MAGA rally is a place of community. It's fun to be with like minded people like we are here in this community. But why can't we separate the performers from the audience. Especially now that those performers like Donald are losing ground fast. They need us to be kind to them and see them as fellow citizens or all will be lost soon. There is no us and them, they are not the other, they are us I promise you as i know and am related to some die hard Trump supporters.
Agreed about Dr. Mary Trump, she is the greatest myth buster of our time. Priceless.
Lisa: I'd be more than happy to "be kind to them and see them as fellow citizens."
However, as I said in my book "Enough is Enough: The Cure for Overweight and Obesity": "The problem with brainwashing is, if it's done right — and given we humans desperate need to see everything in black-and-white — 'This is definitely good' 'This is definitely bad' — rather than in endless shades of stomach-churning gray — if brainwashing is done right, the brainwashEE has absolutely no idea what's been done to him. He simply accepts as fact whatever the brainwasher has told him is fact."
Thus, no matter how kind we are to these people, or how much we try to see them as fellow citizens — ostensibly, to wake them up to what's been done to them, by Fox News, Newsmax, OAN, Trump, etc., so we can pull them back from "the dark side" — it won't make any difference: their (brainwashed) minds are set.
So, yes: be kind to them, etc. But for God's sake, don't do it for the purpose of "waking them up", because there is no word for the amount of frustration that will lead to.
P. S. For further examples of the power of brainwashing, see: the original "Manchurian Candidate", starring Frank Sinatra, Laurence Harvey, Angela Lansbury, etc.; and the Canadian film "Ticket to Heaven", starring Saul Rubinek, Kim Cattrall ("Sex and the City"), etc.
And watch Gaslight on Starz with Julia Roberts. And watch FOX News and you will see the world from their view and understand where they are coming from better. They are not stupid. They are not terrible people. They are so much more than MAGA.
David, you have a knack for sound logic. I appreciate that.
Right On!
Thank you. You are too kind. Fingers crossed!
Victims love an avenger. They found one so they think.
Re "Victims love an avenger": which Trump completely understands: "I am your retribution."
Unfortunately, he never finishes the thought: "I am your retribution, even though I don't give a s*** about you, other than as a source of money and a vote. If ANYONE'S going to get 'retribution' for being wronged, it's ME, and ONLY me. The rest of you can go f*** yourselves!"
Of course, if he did say that to his followers, all the majority of them would say is, "Oh that Trump; what a kidder! Talking that 'locker room talk' again, like he did on that Access Hollywood tape."
Or: "There goes the fake media again, putting words in Trump's mouth that he never said, since he couldn't possibly feel that way about us! I'd better send him another hundred bucks to help him fend off those horrible media types!"
Yes.
Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. These poor abused unfortunates are the ones who intend to overthrow our democracy. A democracy that countless patriots have died for. This is not the time for your campaign to coddle and cuddle these people. Have you forgotten they are enemies of America? Saying otherwise is just not true.
They are following the directions of one man and his big lie. If you watched only right wing media all day and night you would see what they see. They are being used and manipulated. Americans are not enemies with each other. That belief will lead to civil war. That is why I am speaking up now. Separate the Republican politicians from the voters please. They are not the same. You have noted multiple times you disagree so please let’s respect this public comment space for Steve and agree to disagree.
Right wing media did not resonate with me. Trump did not pull me in. It resonates with them. They were drawn to him. MAGA. They are responsible for their beliefs and behavior and for the vote they cast against democracy and the rule of law.
The Dominion lawsuit and 750million dollar settlement proves there is more to the right wing media than just conservative values which drew them in initially.
If I put a blindfold on you for years and years can you describe the tree in front of your house to me. Unlikely.
Disagreeing is ok though, right? Even more than once.
Like the other commenters, I ache for what your family and community and really all Jews are suffering in this inconceivable time. Three of my grandparents were Eastern European Jews, my dads’ folks from Hungary and my mom’s dad from Russia. I am grateful they are not alive to see what’s happening in their beloved adopted country and the world right now.
I appreciate your loving intentions and wish you nothing but success in your loving outreach. But I don’t think you will find much success, at least not as things are now. It was different for a year or two after Trump took office. I used to have friendly conversations with MAGAs back then, but the people I saw on Twitter and Facebook became ever more hostile and eventually I gave it up.
As human beings we have so much in common, just as you say. But your analogy of a hurt / wayward child breaks down, imo. For one thing, MAGAs are not all economically left behind. There are a lot of affluent MAGAS, like those who went to Washington on Jan. 6. There is billionaire support for Trump or for his policies. After the 2016 election, as I’m sure you’re aware, the political press fell all over itself trying to understand Trump voters, eventually spawning the trope of the New York reporter making a pilgrimage to an Ohio diner to be enlightened. Terms like “economic anxiety” were trotted out to explain the Trump base.
But eventually none of the theories held up, and it became increasingly obvious that racial hostility and other bigotries (seemingly the bigotries are always clustered; nobody hates black people but is entirely comfortable and respectful with other minorities) were one of the biggest drivers. When they said delightedly that Trump “tells it like it is,” they were often referring to him saying out loud what they had felt constrained from saying themselves. He gave them not just permission to indulge their own bigotry but to feel liberated doing it.
That and a keen, aggressive desire to hurt anyone who isn’t one of them, however they define that. The GOP didn’t even have a platform in 2020; policy and governing don’t interest them. They love Trump bc he hates and hurts the people they want to see hurt.
I avoid trash talking about MAGAs. My belief is, they have been emotionally co-opted via decades of right-wing media that doesn’t see political opponents as humans with differing beliefs but as Marxists, socialists, pedophiles, groomers, even cannibals (see QAnon). Ruth Ben-Ghiat, Timothy Snyder, Brian Klaas, Jason Stanley, scholars of authoritarianism, say what’s happening among these people is textbook radicalization. You might find their writing about this useful. There’s also a wonderful writer and psychologist, Elizabeth Mika, who has written extensively about the relationship between the authoritarian leader and his followers.
I honestly do not know how to have a good-faith conversation with people who see me as literally demonic, and whose rejection of facts and truth is total.
What I wonder is, how did we deal with the Germans and other fascists after WWII? There must be a model for facilitating a return to more rational thinking and confidence in truth, facts, and our institutions, and relating to the rest of humankind as creatures like themselves.
I read back in 2018 about people who had family members who fell down the MAGA rabbit hole but had gotten them back. One guy’s simple action was surprisingly effective: he used his TV remote’s parental controls to make FOX inaccessible to his father. When he complained, the guy told him they didn’t get the channel anymore. In about three months, his father returned to his pre-cult self.
Anyway, please prove me wrong. If you figure out how to bridge the abyss with people who literally think you are demonic, that you hate America and are trying to destroy it, that you are a pedophile…please let us know. I would be happy to help but right now, I see no evidence there is any desire to reconcile, only to destroy the rest of us (Ron DeSantis promised not to beat the Dems, but to destroy the left completely, in a recent speech). In the meantime, I pray for these people’s release from their fear and rage and from the ugly lies they are told 24/7.
You speak for me. Thank you.
you bet…thank you.
That's exactly my point they are being lied to and manipulated so it is up to us and Steve to do something about it. Show me anything in life worthwhile which is easy, you can't. Rebuilding trust takes time and it starts small like with being kind on Twitter. I just pulled up from my feed these quotes, now pretend they are not speaking to MAGA but Jews, Blacks, Asians, or LGBTQ and it sounds pretty terrible doesn't it. There is no need for this. We need them. We need this country to come together even if the media and politicians can't or won't.
• “You can’t fix stupid but the hats make it easier to identify.”
• “Listen up stupids; innocent parties don’t agree to pay out three quarters of a billion dollars to avoid trial.”
• “A sucker is someone who supported him in 2016, a loser is someone who still does.”
• “It’s a cult of f’ng stupids.”
Your first twitter quote is copied to my desktop now. I know, it is terrible :-(
Hello Lisa,
Thank you for writing about your experience with us, and providing some clarity and historical context as well. Hearing of these experiences is heart-wrenching and angry-provoking. Thank you for your positive and strong persevernce!
The sickness plaguing our democracy has been weaponized and perpetuated by the grifting, disinformation juggernaut of Fox and their ilk. These disgusting and traitorous companies continually spew anti-democratic and toxic grievance and anger only to grow their profit margins. The result has been the normalization of anti-jewish venom and racial hate, which sadly, has always existed in the underbelly of our country. Unfortunately Trump and his sycophantic followers normalized it (and Fox grifted from it).
In my community of Highland Park IL (which has a large jewish population) there are police vehicles at every synagogue during services. This has really come into being over that past 8 years, since Trump, and is an abomination to our precious democracy.
Thank you, Lisa!.
Let’s remember that’s someone’s father or child, a fellow American who might have served his country or community, just like you or your family members before we call them stupid.
Give them time now, as the person they love and admire, and who made them feel seen and hopeful, over the past eight years, is starting to be held accountable for his criminal actions. But let’s be kind, patient, and persistent in this mission to reach across the aisle and start a conversation with MAGA supporters.
I have no doubt the cruel attacks and the name-calling on the news and in social media is making them feel more hurt, more isolated, and more unwilling to connect to our country as a whole. We can report, and share, the news without using name-calling or taking joy in other people’s pain and shame. We always have a choice. Let’s say to every MAGA supporter that we love this country, too, and we also want what is best for our children and our nation. We can have a conversation on what we have in common, but nothing happens with the hostility on our side of the isle. We have so much more in common than the politicians and media indicate. Thanks for your kind reply.
MAGA leaders sowed hatred and division in this country as a means to gain power and money. Do we allow ourselves to play out their PLAN as though we're actors on DJT and MTG's stage or in their colosseum, while the media rakes in more $$? NO!! Otherwise WE are also victims, and this is one significant way that Democracys are lost.
Martin Luther King, Jr. "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear."
Thank you for your reply. As a mother and a business owner it is my job all day long to lift people up and not point fingers. I tell my employees best part of mistakes is to learn from them otherwise it is double punishment: we cost ourselves money and learned nothing.
Many of us are frustrated and angry (I've been angry for years, and my health has suffered, along with a sense of joy in living.) Anger is a human emotion - a powerful one, which should not be shamed. Now, how to work through this anger, move it constructively, without creating more chaos is a worthy endeavor. Well, it hasn't been a straight line for me by any means, but compassion for what we're all experiencing can help. Thanks.
Please stay heathy, find the critical balance you need in your life. Never easy but a good time to practice. Compassion is the great door opener to start connection. More needs to be done step by step, day by day once we see every single American as one big tossed salad or melting pot or both. I know for sure we are better together.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God." You are a peacemaker. Thank you for your insight and generosity of spirit.
Thank you so much. You made my day.
I’m sorry to hear what you’re going through. I agree that hate never solves anything. We do have more in common than we don’t with all others. I know what it’s like to grow up angry and afraid and I wouldn’t have been able to walk out if not for the loving acceptance and support of friends and family.
I will continue to do what I can to encourage voting and accept that those I don’t agree with and feel are evil are no different than me…I was just lucky enough and strong enough to see and be guided into another level of awareness and chose to get stronger in that space. Thanks for posting your experiences and perspective. It’s really helpful.
I am sorry for your pain and grateful you are in a better place. Thanks for sharing.
Stop struggling. Just think of them as the Nazi's, before the extermination camps were discovered. It will save a lot of angst. And I chose that parallel because it defines perfectly that there are some humans that cannot be reasoned with. Here's what that would sound like:
MAGA: I want to cut off both of your arms.
Normal People: No. I don't want you to cut off both of my arms.
MAGA: Ok. Let's compromise. I'll just cut off one of your arms.
Normal People: No. You will not cut off any of my arms.
MAGA: You're being unreasonable and uncompromising.
Normal People: I'm being self-protective, and therefore uncompromising, in your desire to cut off my arms. That's reasonable.
MAGA has chosen everything that they are, willingly, fully awake, and with the truth right at their fingertips. Good luck trying to understand that.
As for MAGAs, they're not deprived of truth. They choose lies over truth. They exist in a vacuum because they have consciously chosen it.
The Dominion lawsuit proves they are being lied to by FOX for decades.
If they are the Nazis then let's intervene now as 50 million people died in WWII.
The Nazis were manipulated and lied to by one man and his big lie.
Whoa... I DID NOT say they were Nazis. But they are, by their own admission. You have seen their flags, haven't you? They follow Hitler. And make the Nazi salute. So I didn't say it. They did.
I appreciate your expressed loving nature. I have one too. But I don't extend it to evil. If you want to reach out to them, go for it. It's a waste of time. They. can. not. be. reached.
And, they don't have to be lied to. They can turn the channel to MSNBC. They're not toddlers. They don't even have to pick their fat asses off their sofa to do it. You're mistaking their "ignorance" as something that's happening to them. It's not. They're choosing it over all the other available information at their fingertips right here on the world wide web.
Above all else we must come together as one nation before it is too late. It is not a matter of loving nature but a historical reckoning of what happened before WWII. The precursors to kill the Jews are similar calling us the other and beyond reproach. We were not and neither are MAGA. MAGA is being lied to by their politicians and news sources. The NAZIS were lied to by Hitler and the German Goebbels propaganda machine. There are dozens of other historical relationships to what we are seeing now, history rhymes. I am not going to change my news sources and neither are they. And we are in a dire situation due to FOX being allowed to lie and lie for 30 years with little consequences and we see the results now.
What good comes from calling them stupid and evil, nothing.
We did not get here overnight and we will not get out of it overnight either. But a slow coming together and stopping calling them names on Twitter is all I am asking for to built trust and bridge the divide could go a long way.
If you sat down for coffee with a MAGA supporter and did not speak about politics you would agree on many issues and could enjoy discussing your family, friends, community, travel, gardening and so much more because Americans are so similar and have so much in common. There are always the very extreme of course but the majority of the so called MAGA people are just trying to get by like you and me. They pay taxes and go to work and are raising their children. Look around the world in countries with sectarian violence, why do we want that. Now is the time to prevent it. The window is closing with the upcoming presidential election and people like Steve who have the strongest voices can help make this happen.
Thank you for your comment and I am sorry for the long reply.
Where to start. I'm putting Steve aside. I think he is a good person with a political DNA that is unlike mine. I've yet to hear what he stands for, besides the constitution and democracy, though. I believe him, but those are the basics. Every Democrat supports those and always has.
As for calling "them" names on Twitter, I have no idea what you're talking about. That's not me. I have, however, seen rank and file Republicans post the most vile and threatening things imaginable.
As I see it, there is no "slow coming together" with MAGA or Nazis. We can only defeat them. And it's not me saying that they're Nazis. They're saying it. And they are - Nazis. No "Republican" has disavowed them. They have all protected them. There was a name for the quiet onlookers who did nothing while the Nazis burned Europe, and nearly an entire race, to the ground. But I can't recall what it was.
MAGA's are going to MAGA. And we can talk about our kids, gardening, pets, whatever, and at the end of the day they're going to want to control your body and continue to erase all the advances of the second half of the 20th Century: voting rights, woman's bodily autonomy, marriage equality, everything. They will not stop unless they are stopped. We have been showing them compassion and understanding for over forty years. It hasn't worked.
Thanks for reading and responding. We'll probably just have to agree to disagree:)
How, exactly, would you suggest we intervene?
I suggest we stop calling any fellow American the other.
I suggest we treat all Americans with the respect they deserve.
I suggest we see how much pain everyone is in before we judge so harshly.
I suggest we stop calling MAGA stupid, hillbilly, chucklefuck, losers and worse on social media.
I suggest people are so much more than their political beliefs and we have so much more in common than we do not and we all work together and get along quite well in this country.
I suggest we do this soon and for further reference please read Tom Phillip's book "Humans, A brief history how we F'd it all up."
To see how much more complex any group is, even a hateful group, I suggest watching American History X movie to learn more how complex the issue is.
Thank you for your question.
“I suggest people are so much more than their political beliefs.”
Is that like serial killers are so much more than the murders they’ve committed?
I agree strongly with all of this.
"I suggest we stop calling any fellow American the other.
I suggest we treat all Americans with the respect they deserve.
I suggest we see how much pain everyone is in before we judge so harshly.
I suggest we stop calling MAGA stupid, hillbilly, chucklefuck, losers and worse on social media.
I suggest people are so much more than their political beliefs and we have so much more in common than we do not and we all work together and get along quite well in this country."
I've contemplated a program of sorts where, say, a progressive is paired with a MAGA and they simply sit down over coffee and get to know one another, see one another as people.....multiply that over towns and regions, etc...we need some restorative humanity; this will dispel some hate...
Great idea do it, love coffee the underrated connector. You can make some Zoom meetings too. And I have no doubt you are related to and do business with some MAGA people now and may not even realize it.
A simple quick first step for all of us is to stop calling them names on social media. Why would you beat up someone who is already in pain and suffering, for some for generations, you wouldn't of course and you would not allow your children to either.
I don’t like the generalization that ‘they are in pain and suffering’ and it’s up to me (or us) to do something about their pain and suffering. How do you know they are in pain and suffering any more than you or I are? Do I want them to extend an olive branch to me for my pain and suffering? To try to fix me? No. This is a made up problem because in my view it’s supposed to be this way. I may not like it but it’s the way it is and I’m willing to look at it as it is now. Flat out. I’m willing to see if there is something I want to do about it. There is. VOTE.
Voting is great. Being respectful to everyone is also great. Let’s stop calling them stupid on social media. Can we at least agree on that basic idea to start to bridge the divide.
We will have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. Thank you for your comments. I wish you well.
I don’t disagree with your desire to have us all get along and see how much we have in common and develop that. I agree with stopping all the name calling too. Name calling is lame. I think you have made an inroad here to get people thinking about things. That is a good thing. I guess I just don’t like your generalizations about the MAGAs and that we are supposed to fix them or bridge the divide and that we are running out of time to do so, like a sales pitch. I appreciate your intent though.
The next presidential election is not that far off and if you have ever been in conflict with someone in your personal life you know how long it takes to mend fences and build trust again. Thanks for your comment. Appreciate it very much.
Hi Lisa, I'm going to quote you on what you said here, because I feel it is so very important: "MAGA has been lied to and manipulated and grifted upon.....so please do not blame them, blame the lies coming from FOX and their Politicians." and "now seems to be the best time to extend an olive branch or two, or 200, to his MAGA supporters, and get to know who they are and how we can shorten the divide between American citizens." Thank You!! Lisa B.
I could not agree more. Now is the best time since we are running out of time. Thanks so so so much.
Are we running out of time?
Of all the positive, affirming things one can do on any given day why would trying to understand an unrepentent MAGAt be on that list? My idea would be to cut the head off the snake and then allow the followers to look into themselves and tell us why they took the path with tRump in the first place and that explanation would include their life experiences that got them to that point - let them do the hard work of introspection and then seek reconciliation. Thanks for listening
I suggest reading Dr. Mary Trump's book "The Reckoning."
This goes way beyond Donald Trump due to our refusal to reckon with Slavery and Native Americans and has real consequences for all of us today.
And I would also say we have time to many things all at once including understanding MAGA and discussing the source and history of their pain and disenfranchisement.
Donald Trump is one piece of the puzzle and there are many who will gladly take his place. Please look at the polling numbers for Bernie Sanders in 2016, many millions who voted for him in the primary switched to Donald Trump and the main. That tells me there is hope for connection with MAGA and Bernie did it. Plus knowing MAGA supporters personally I know there is room for respect and connection at all levels. Your mechanic might be a MAGA supporter and he deserves to be treated with respect like anyone.
His mechanic might be a MAGA? Heads or tails, I don’t think Richard’s mechanic is a MAGA. But even if he is, why don’t you be respectful and kind to your own mechanic? And heads or tails I bet you are. My point is that people can only be as kind as they are. No kinder. The more they learn the kinder they may get …or the meaner. I like the idea of stopping the war between Americans. But it’s for one American at a time to handle that in their own way in their own time.
I take each individual as they are and treat them with respect. If my boat or car mechanic is a MAGA-er who cares? as long as they do their job (mechanic) I’m not interested in hearing their religion of “I’m a victim” and “whoa is me” then we’re good - it’s not dismissing their concerns I just think for many MAGA-ers it’s a contrived problem, so why would I waste my time helping them get well. Introspection, admit you made a mistake and we’ll all get along much better
Yes to introspection.
The reason I care is because of how or that they may judge me, a Libtard.
…and maybe that could affect the service.
It is WE, the Jewish People, who must mobilize as a massive voice of protest and fight this cancer with every ounce of strength we have gathered over 2000 years of being persecuted. I'm ready to fight and I'm a 75 year old woman. But I'm not going down without a fight.
"There are Nazis in Georgia. Where are the Americans?"
Thank you for your reply.
Respectfully I would say we need to educate and communicate not protest.
One connection, one tweet, one person at a time can make a big difference and bring this country together and remind everyone we are all Americans who deserve respect, basic human rights, and a fair playing field to work and live.
Education and communication have gotten us exactly nowhere. Respectfully, I disagree with you. It's time for action. Not tweets.
That is heartbreaking. It should not be this way. I’m so sorry that this is a reality for you and your family.
Thank you. It could be worse. It could be better. I am going to stay hopeful and grateful to live in this great country thanks to people like you and all those in this small community. One day one tweet at a time we can unite this country.
Can you provide any proof this is true?
"We drop our kids off at school past police and armed security guards. We go to synagogue weekly past a swat team to protect us."
Perhaps some video? Public records from the police? I'm really open to whatever you may have.
Thanks!
Did I ask for the names of the 2 security officers as I raced to enter synagogue today no I did not. Should I have asked for their payroll records as I raced to leave to head to a lunch we were co-hosting for children with cancer no I did not. Will I take videos of the police cars or the security guards keeping my children safe when school starts again this fall no I will not but feel free to drive by any Jewish day school anywhere in the country and you will see it with your own eyes. Feel free to file a FOIA to gather records of the bullet poof windows we installed at our synagogue with Homaland Security grants and records of police presence during the recent day of hate. Will I provide you with the massive fundraiser we recently held to raise funds to pay for the new security measures needed at our synagogue no sorry. Will I show you the email from my children's schools of the 2 bomb threats they faced last year no thanks.
If you want to have a conversation great. If you want to start this with defaulting that I am not being honest then the conversation is over before it began and I never would have shared personal informaiton like this publicly unless I felt it was of great importance.
For more information of the reason for the increased security over the past 8 years I would like to refer you to the ADL website www.adl.org as they track hate crimes in America and abroad.
Lisa, if you want to convince people of the seriousness of how bad things have become nothing says that like a photo or a video. Words don’t always convey that, especially to people who have no similar experience.
Speak to anyone living in the Jewish community in America and they will tell you the same.
A few videos and pictures from me will not convey the seriousness of this issue and the fear we are living in. I had a cousin years ago who did not believe man walked on the moon so no amount of personal pictures or videos from me will matter if someone is determined to call me a liar. Not to mention on the Sabbath I cannot take pictures or carry my cell phone.
I don't even have a facebook account and am normally extremely private but this issue is too important not to bring up to Steve and his wonderful readers, and my strong belief to stop demonizing anyone in this country even MAGA as history has proven.
---Day of Hate declared in Chicago: https://chicago.suntimes.com/2023/2/22/23611081/chicago-police-jewish-communities-vigilant-when-neo-nazi-group-has-declared-national-day-of-hate
---Go to www.ADL.com website they are tracking all hate crimes in America.
---Go to the Presidents 100 point plan to fight the growing anti-semitism in Ameica: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/05/25/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-releases-first-ever-u-s-national-strategy-to-counter-antisemitism/
---Go to 1,000,000 other websites tracking this issue of rising hate crimes against all minorities in this country.
Lisa, Thank you for taking the time to give me the links. I appreciate it.
Your cousin who would not believe a man actually walked on the moon? You say no amount of pictures or videos would matter since he was determined that he was right. Did he think you were lying? To me your cousin’s belief that it was a lie that a man walked on the moon is the same way MAGA believes that the election was stolen, no matter all the lost law suits and so much other evidence to the contrary. That’s why people give up trying to convince them otherwise. I could hand them an olive branch but would they recognize it as a loving gesture or would they be defensive and wary?
Respectfully please refer to my dozen replies to others on this post to answer your question. People are so smart and lovely and I did my best to reply with comprehensive answers to everyone. But the bottom line is respect. No matter what their political beliefs are everyone must be treated with respect. And we have so much more in common than not as Americans.
As far as I can tell, you're either lying about having proof or refuse to share it.
At the end of the day, it means your assertion is unproven and can be dismissed out of hand.
Thank you so much! I am so grateful for your kind words.
My pleasure. Really appreciate your kind words. Remember even with their flag you can go to your neighbors and break bread or run to do some charity work together which Americans do best. You have so much more in common than not.
There was a group of white American Nazis with giant Swastika flags in front of a Jewish synagogue in Georgia over the weekend. Where were the counter demonstrators? Read the history. Silence is deadly. Nazis must be shamed and publicly humiliated for the horror they represent.
After two Gen-Z boys, 14 and 22, told me that adult outrage over Roseanne's comments was ridiculous and embarrassing, as she was clearly kidding, I watched the complete version. There is nothing remotely funny or facetious in the way she said what she said. It's ugly, cold, incoherent word salad. Not even Theo knows that the hell she's getting at. Even if she were, in fact, joking, to put something this ugly into the world is stupid and indecent. Roseanne battles mental illness, so I guess she gets a pass, but I wish Theo, whom I like, had shown more wisdom. He didn't need to release it.
Back in the 1980s people kept raving about the Roseanne Barr show on TV. I didn't even own a TV for like 17 years (from 18-35), but at my parents' home one day tried to watch it.
I couldn't get past 5 minutes-- it was just Roseanne and others standing around slinging cheap-shot ugly remarks at each other's expense. I stopped watching and told my mother & dad, "With this kind of humor, America will fall."
I trace a straight line from that type of heart-less, soul-less, non-empathic "humor" of Roseanne Barr to Donald J. Trump.
It's all merely clever "head humor," not uplifting heart-humor.
Devoid of kindness.
Devoid of empathy.
Devoid of the healing love everyone needs to flourish and create a beautiful world together.
I, too, tried to watch that show just to see what my co-workers were raving about. I think I got through 5 minutes. Can't stand the woman.
We need kindness, empathy, and the healing love everyone needs to flourish and create a beautiful world together. It is time to change channels in our nation and in our hearts.
That sounds right. I think it will catch on.
Tim Ryan's talk with Steve on zoom quite awhile ago was truly uplifting. Tim Ryan is a visionary. Right now, I feel I might just stay angry for awhile :-) xo
That was such a great talk. I saw it too.
The holocaust is nothing to joke about and the clip shows Roseanne is not speaking with humor. I can understand why her family would want to claim that her assertion was taken out of context but there is no defense to her remarks. Her statement that Jews did not die in the holocaust is particularly horrible in that she is Jewish. She appears to have lost her mind.
Wow. Powerful stuff. So I am wondering--- how much did Hitler's supporters (anyone who cheered for him) fess up to supporting him and showing contrition for doing so? My hope is that some day my Trump supporting friends/extended family members will say--- I can't believe I supported that guy, I wish I had actually listened to you and the lame stream media which I guess wasn't so lame in hindsight.
Route66Gal, that's a beautiful thought. Alas, as i've mentioned several times on these threads, the phenomenon of COGNITIVE DISSONANCE prevents most people from being able to admit this-- unless they have a good amount of psycho-spiritual maturity, and the humility and self-deprecating humor to go along with it.
Because most people don't have this kind of maturity, and because they've invested a large amount of time, money, and emotional energy into their particular cause (in this case MAGA) or person (Trump) they simply cannot admit they were wrong, but will instead engage in all those Freudian defense mechanisms i've also mentioned here (as recently as yesterday): denial, rationalization, identification, projection, reaction formation.
For decades i've studied this phenomenon in dysfunctional religious & pop psychology cults and dangerous socio-political cults like the Nazis, the Maoists, the Khmer Rouge, the Ku Klux Klan. And now we have the Trump MAGA cult.
And cognitive dissonance is holding tens of millions of our fellow Americans in its grasp.
Re remorse and Hitler, I would point you to Dietrich Bonehoffer or what the Allies did after the war with the German population required atrocities films. There were those who knew and worked against. There were those who knew and ignored and those who knew and readily joined in.
My question is always how many truly believe and how many go along to get along.
However, to this end, we like Gandhi, must speak up; we must work and support those who are doing the "hard stuff" like running for office, researching for the truth, and holding Judases accountable for their traitorous actions. Keep speaking out every day. I like to say, instead of fighting over what is right, put your "shoulder to the wheel" and work for justice and peace. Thank you for speaking out every day!
I agree. Like Adam Shiff has been doing? Their response was to censure him.
Authoritarians that hold power by stoking fear with those around them, surrounding themselves with yes, men, and destroying the guard rails of institutions that create restraints on them, cannot hold that power for long. Once the rule of law is destroyed, all it takes is someone smarter more driven and calculating to take your place. Democracy is a messy business, but it is the best we have for the human race if we can hang onto it.
Many are concerned Donald may somehow wriggle out of the justice that is due him. That’s not possible even if he is not imprisoned.
His punishment has already begun. It will continue every day from now on until he dies. It is torture for this kind of man to be caught, to be guilty and to have it be known by the majority of people in the US and in the world.
Everyone is either against him or they are deluded. To a man for whom image is the only thing that is real, this will not be survived. It’s breaking him even now.
The indictments, the court dates and the perception of guilt most people see when they look at him or think of him is weakening him gradually every single day. It’s a death curse for a man like Donald Trump.
It’s interesting that it’s happening to Putin at the same time.
Correction: all are not deluded. The Trump followers who are against our American democracy have the right man.
Where to begin,
Roseanne Barr is an ignorant attention seeking media whore which is a toxic brew.
Her history speaks for itself, portraying an ignorant Archie type until her genuine racism and intolerance doomed her to irrelevance doing podcasts with some sycophantic piece of garbage.
As to the history of despots, yes it always ends the same way, however before their fall they take so many people with them, death, mayhem and destruction is the common thread, and yet even after the hangings, suicides and torture of these “strongmen” they always seem to leave a portion of themselves for years to come:
Italy has a fascist clone in power, France is next, India, turkey, hungry and so many others already in the grip of fascist leaders, just a little more charming and a bit less cartoonist!!
So i agree, it ultimately ends badly for them, however just looking at America today, with a full 30% supporting an ignorant strong man, our pain is far from over, 2024 is key and only a washout of lost presidential, 10 seats in senate and 50 seats in house will expunge the gop of its racist, fascist grievance based appeal
I am in shock after listening to Roseanne Barr and the yahoo she was talking garbage with. So sickening!! After my father passed, (he was a WWII veteran) I found a scrapbook of many of the places my father went to during the war. He had pictures of his war buddies also. The picture of Musilini hanging with the others is in his scrapbook. I never knew who those people were. The Holocaust happened my father, uncles and a lot of other brave men and women fought. So many died. I am sickened that anyone would think differently.
The harm that Trump has done to the American body politic is incalculable...............and possibly incurable.
He's a disaster who has done real damage to our democratic institutions.
If somehow the insane idiot cult elects him, we're done.
I refuse to go with incurable but will say it has long term impacts. It will be the lost cause for the next 100 years, replacing the 1861-1865 conflict.
When we recognize there will be those holding onto their battered and torn Trump flags as trophies s and will have Trump coins hidden in case they become legal tender, then we know it will be with us in the future
defenestrating - I had to look that word up and it was so worth it.
𝐝𝐞·𝐟𝐞𝐧·𝐞𝐬·𝐭𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐞
𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐛
1.RARE
throw (someone) out of a window.
"she had made up her mind that the woman had been defenestrated, although the official verdict had been suicide"
2. remove or dismiss (someone) from a position of power or authority.
"the overwhelming view is that he should be defenestrated before the next election"
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That will be one person, the one that rose on the backs of the many. But what happens to them? Do they find another? or do they crawl back under their rocks, waiting for another day to rise up?
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If Trump has done anything GOOD for this country, it is to uncover all the hidden truths and the loopholes in laws for those that don't give a shit about the law. I hope we recover stronger than ever with laws in place to prevent a lot of what he has done to ever happen again.
a few that come immediately to mind. Please add others as you see fit
◙ If "criminals" cannot vote, they should not be allowed to run for office
◙ MUCH stronger controls over classified information handling in Federal Government regarding national security ( I realize this can be a very slippery slope and thoughtful study needs to occur)
◙ Supreme Court Justices need to be held to same scrutiny as all government employees and those that have not followed the rules, should be ousted.
◙ Elimination of corruptible Electoral College System and revert to one person, one vote for Federal Election.
◙ ALL presidential candidates have laws to abide by or they are OUT. PERIOD. Make discovery of financials law not a request
◙ oh yeah, Overturn Citizens United and make unlimited donations illegal again and that includes NO DARK MONEY to campaigns
There is so much more, but that is what comes to mind right now. But I gotta go clean off deck for a donation run this afternoon.
While I do not want to see Trump hanging by his feet being beat to death; I do want to see him in prison for the remainder of his life.
Steve,
Thank you for this. Since I am a historian who has researched, studied and written about dictators and monarchical despots, you are spot on. Very few live and those that do go into ignominious exile. Trump is too ignorant of history to understand this, as you pointed out he is mesmerized by the parades and endless lines of sycophants willing to do the dictator’s bidding that he never sees the end. Your indictment of the American people for electing him, especially the GOP sycophants that still support him reminds me of part of Milton Meyer’s book “They Thought They Were Free: The Germans 1933-1945. Meyer wrote of one of his colleagues in the 1950s when he was teaching in Germany:
“And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jew swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.
I wrote about this on Substack a month ago: https://dundas.substack.com/p/maga-thinks-they-are-free
Have a great day. Thank you for writing this and your insights into Trump and the American people. How many of we former Republicans didn’t see this coming. I think I did when Sarah Palin came along after my time in Iraq and listening to Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, and others when I realized that the GOP was losing it, especially how these people treated John McCain. It was so embarrassing. To see or hear Palin now makes me nauseous. I think that the Christian Nationalists and all of their leaders and organizations are largely responsible for the GOP’s moral implosion.
Anyway, I have said enough. Thank you again.
Sincerely,
Steve Dundas
Resist the beginnings consider the end .....one of my favorite passages from Milton Meyer. So often that passage comes to my mind and I have shared it with many friends.
Mine too, especially since I returned from Iraq in 2008.
Steven, I just finished reading from your link above. It makes a light go on. It is a must read for this Substack readership. A must read. Thank you.
Thank you!
My naive analysis of the Wagner uprising is this:
Yevgeny Prigozhin polled the oligarchs of Russia and had a number of them tell him that they would support him in a coup. They were fed up with the loss of freedom of travel, the loss of their financial power, and the loss of their toys, so why not.
Time for a change except, they never showed up at the party, and Yevgeny realized that he was marching to his own demise. When offered a way out, he took it.
VOTE PEOPLE.
Lisa, It's scary knowing the stress of people, who are targets to Separate, a United front. I can assure you this has no place in our home. We do Not discriminate us Americans. I am part of a lower class of ppl. in my community.
I read and comprehend what's going on in these United States. Debatable news and members of Congress, and Wealthy backers who tout lies for attention, puts undo stress on the nation. It's the reason I read and subscribe to substack.
Outrageous behavior shows just what lengths people will go to Fool a Free and not always a Fair Country. We are the voters, We are the people who pay the taxes.
I was taught in a little town, in my state, that I live in a melting pot. I know nothing else. I'm older and I never regretted getting to know all kinds of ppl., in different walks of life. Oh, the food and Conversations. Seems no matter the race, human nature is the same no matter the station in life.
Be kind and Be neighborly. It's my thing.
Antonia, I like your comment.
"Oh, the food and Conversations." and "Be kind and Be neighborly. It's my thing." Love this!!