Hell the Murdochs have no business in any MSM entity, FUX news would be another. What did they pay to keep Rupert from having to testify in open court, was it $787+ million, something like that, if my memory is correct, they spent that money because they lied. Proven liars have no business in any MSM, we can’t afford to have lies stirred into our political mix.
“I don't know a single person at the Post who thinks the current situation with the publisher and supposed new editor can stand. There might be a few, but very very few. Jeff Bezos owns the Post but he is not of and for the Post or he would understand. The issue is one of integrity not resistance to change.”—David Marrannis
Looks like Marrannis was partially right. Robert Winnett will not be the Editor of the WP. The center held, and Winnett has decided to stay with the Telegraph in London.
Granted, this debacle is far from over? Or as Steve has stated:
“The last thing we need in this country is to import the British media ethos and epic scumbaggery of men like Piers Morgan, Will Lewis, or really anyone associated with any of it. It is disgusting.”
The MSM is becoming unbearable to tolerate, in its quest for more subscribers, better ratings and advertising dollars. Their methods are destroying the reputation of the Fourth Estate, and putting our democracy and republic at grave risk.
It’s time to fight back because the greedy billionaires are buying all of our main stream media, and revered periodicals; becoming tools for tyrants and fools, with too much money, and time on their hands.
And as Steve stated so eloquently; it’s a debacle: N’est-ce pas?”…:)
He, and Andy Alexander (originally w/ Cox and in my hometown of Dayton, Ohio, the Cox Bureau in DC and then Ombudsman at WaPo and now doing far more interesting things in journalism) and working to fix print journalism and to help the demise of knowledge in and by communities. PBSNewsHour has aired a number of stories of small town paper crusaders.
We need more and we need a public willing to READ and absorb news.
My late husband’s career in the news business was mostly in broadcasting, but I think this observation also applies to print. The best of his employers were wealthy and interested in their community more than the bottom line. These included a radio station, a television station, and a national cable news provider. Other owners, interested in profit over service, had undistinguished operations. This seems to be a fundamental weakness in our system, which depends on the circulation of sound information. Good journalism appears to be a kind of philanthropy.
We must face it, our system has evolved into predatory capitalism; those not willing to compromise their values are driven out of business by their more ruthless competitors.
To save ourselves we need to stop the fascist/MAGA/Qanon/"Christian" movement AND create an economy that ends the grotesquely uneven distribution of wealth, ensures all people their basic needs, but maintains enough aspects of capitalism to provide incentive and reward to entrepreneurs, professionals, and those creative and hardworking individuals who help expand the economy.
Two economic proposals to achieve this: 1) a simple and truly progressive income tax applicable to individuals and corporations (Mitt Romney said corporations are people, which is true under American law) with no deductions. Off the top of my head, if you earn under $40,000, no taxes, $40-60 (10%), $60-100 (15%), 100,000-200,000 (20%), $200,000-500,000 (40%), over $500,000 (65%). Obviously these figures would have to adjusted to meet our actual budgetary needs. 2) A law forbidding any employer, including government, to pay their highest paid employee more than 10X what their lowest employee makes.
Simplistic? In a way yes. Possible? If we cared enough.
I know about the rates under Eisenhower; however, by eliminating all loopholes AND deductions the federal government would wind up with more revenue than by simply raising nominal rates. And, if my second suggestion were adopted, there would be far less need for welfare spending.
When I say all deductions, I mean ALL, even for dependent children, as the money a working person took home should support a reasonably sized family. We would have a single payer national health care system, cutting out all the money wasted on profits and advertising by health insurance companies that are more interested in ensuring their profits than our health. The profits from pharmaceutical sales would end. Doctors and all other people should be able to attend public universities at no cost and when they begin to serve should receive salaries from $150,000 to 300,000. The elimination of ridiculously high student loans and the elimination of the need for malpractice insurance would result in doctors, engineers and other professionals making more than they do now. The government could award reasonable amounts to those who were victims of malpractice or, their families in case of death.
Corporations would exist to make a profit, but should realize their main goal is to provide consumers the goods they wantat fair prices. Competition among those producing clothing, electronics, and other goods is fine and gives us variety. But corporations should be strictly regulated to protect the environment and consumers.
Wage limits on the gap between lowest paid workers and highest paid would apply to CEOs and we wouldn't face the current contradiction of companies not doing well, Boeing for example, paying their CEO's obscenely high salaries.
The reality is so horrifying I escape through dreaming about what could be instead of what is, much as John Lennon did in "Imagine." Thank you for giving me the opportunity to live in that dream while I responded to you. Let's keep dreaming and hoping.
In the horrible event of Trump winning the country will need legitimate news sources more than ever, and the remnants of whatever might remain of real journalism will have to serve as the bastion of hope that the country can claw its way back from fascism, sources of fact and opinion that tell the country, "It doesn't have to be this way. There was a time when it wasn't and we can bring that back."
Under a second Trump presidency there will bo no legitimate journalism or news, except from sources willing to run the risk of using underground networks.
I love Bill Mahar but I didn't watch or record his show, nor do I have "on demand." I am really curious and would love a brief summary of his explanation of people my age and what it has to do with critical thinking skills.
I’m kind of astonished that the Post has to import a British tabloid expert. This is the Woodward Bernstein Post. Haven’t we had enough of the oh so British tabloid ethos here with the NY Post, Fox News and anything else daddy Rupert touches? These guys are the new King George’s: they think they know better than we in the poor pitiful colony across the Atlantic. C’mon Jeff: boot the British!
Why would Bezos purchase the Post but to keep it a publication that he could trust for his own edification, then we would all benefit? He could be proud of preserving one reliable source and all of the other chaos. (An honorable wealthy person - rare).
I actually thought (and still think) Bezos has that kind of ethos. That he knows what the right thing to do here is, for the Post, its readers and the nation it serves.
A Canadians, WP is the only American newspaper to which my husband and I subscribe, albeit in digital format, and we are at the tipping point of cancelling it. We hear enough BS, exaggerations and lies from other media outlets and unless management cleans up its mess, we will end our relationship with the Post. BTW, I’ve just read that Winnett has decided to continue his employment with The Telegraph and that the search is now on to find a substitute.
Steve, great to hear of Dorothy Thompson, and great point about foreign owned media! I’ve been thinking that in modern times, with the scale of reach in modern media, this is an issue of national security.
There should be a federal law preventing ownership of news/journalistic entities by foreign nationals.
I don't understand why we allow these un-Americans to write and talk trash about Americans. I think they should talk and write trash in their own country about their own people.
Dare I say Katharine Graham would be rolling over in her grave?
From an obit on Graham: "Mrs. Graham's imprint was the product both of her values, which suffused the paper, and of the crucial decisions she made about its leadership and direction. At The Post and Newsweek, she chose great editors, such as The Post's Benjamin Bradlee, and then gave them the independence and resources they needed to produce strong journalism."
Everything the Murdochs touch turns to s**t. Rupert is the poster boy for evil and his son Lachlan is not far behind. One must wonder why some people become so insufferably nasty and toxic. Worse is how they stamp a wide and nefarious imprint on society at large. Murdoch's native Australia has little use or respect for him, so he brought his stench-filled stench to the United States by way of Ronald Reagan.
As to the Washington Post, its mantra is “Democracy dies in darkness.” Add to that, democracy also dies under subterfuge. Jeff Bezos, the uber-rich titan of Amazon could care less about the integrity of the Post. By all rights, no one person should possess that much wealth or lord over that much influence. At least Bezos is not as noxious as Musk. (Fingers crossed.)
When I moved to DC in 1978, there was no question I'd subscribe to WaPo. Then, living in a high-rise near Dupont Circle, there was one outside every single door in the morning. Over time, I've kept my print subscription, adding digital options for access. In the building where I live now - another high-rise in the District - there may be two or three others (of 160 units) that gets a paper in print, WaPo or any, daily. THIS has angered me so much that, like w/ the NY Times, I'm struggling to keep ANY subscription. It's duty, loyalty, town-of-choice. And it hurts.
In Bonfire of the Vanities, written almost 40 years ago, Tom Wolfe contextualizes the infiltration of class-conscious British tabloid culture into the American press. In case anyone has the book handy, I recommend reading chapter 7, in which Peter Fallow reflects on the British takeover of American journalism, and on the specific motivations of his boss Steiner. A couple of excerpts:
"Like more than one Englishman in New York, (Fallow) looked upon Americans as hopeless children whom Providence had perversely provided with this great swollen fat fowl of a continent. Any way one chose to relieve them of their riches, short of violence, was sporting, if not morally justifiable, since they would only squander it in some tasteless and useless fashion, in any event."
"People wondered why Steiner, who had no background in journalism, had come to the United States and undertaken the extremely costly business of setting up a tabloid newspaper. The smart explanation was that The City Light had been created as the weapon of attack or reprisal for Steiner’s much more important financial investments in the United States, where he was already known as “the Dread Brit.” But Fallow knew it was the other way around. The “serious” investments existed at the service of The City Light. Steiner had been reared, schooled, drilled, and handed a fortune by Old Steiner, a loud and pompous self-made financier who wanted to turn his son into a proper British peer, not just a rich Jewish boy. Steiner fils had become the well-mannered, well-educated, well-dressed, proper mouse his father required. He had never found the courage to rebel. Now, late in life, he had discovered the world of the tabloids. His daily dive into the mud-- "scalp grandma, then rob her"-- brought him inexpressible joy. Uhuru! Free at last! Every day he rolled up his sleeves and plunged into the life of the city room. Some days he wrote headlines himself. It was possible that he had written "scalp grandma", although that had the inimitable touch of his managing editor, a Liverpool prole named Brian Highridge. . . . "
...and I don't feel like celebrating. I'd rather send postcards or do work to elect good people. I thought I was fearful in 2020. Now? Reading the June issue of The Nation and the analysis of Project 2025 has been an effort in trying to find peace w/in myself while I fear the very worst.
For decades the extreme right has been taking over the news and the Dems have done little or nothing to warn the public. Fox News (owned by an Australian), Sinclair has taken over most local radio/TV news around the country etc. Now we are losing the W.Post, the only National Newspaper that still tells the truth. The weakness of the Dems is mind-blowing. The billionaires have all the power and they decide what the narrative will be (in their interest only). Brainwashing the masses through the media is the most powerful tool they have ,because they have nothing of substance to offer the public. The weak messaging of Biden and the Dems has brought us to this point. Biden does not understand the mood of the people, he believes that the polls are wrong. Attacking Trump does not work with the white males,
Biden has to attack Trumps failures of the past and his very destructive view of his future policies. Deporting 20 million immigrants will result in mass bankruptcies and many Americans will become unemployed. Who is going to do the hard and dirty work in the fields/factories/slaughterhouses/hospitality business, immigrants are the hardest workers and the economy will collapse without them. The anti abortion law will result in increased poverty ,homelessness, increase in social services (foster care etc.) babies born with severe handicaps will require millions of dollars in medical costs. The poor cannot afford any of this besides the terrible mental toll it puts on women/girls. The tax payers will have to foot the bills. The crime rate dropped by 31% when Roe v Wade became the law. Not 1 democrat talks about any of this, even though the people on the right are most concerned about their finances . The GOP will give more tax cuts to the billionairs this will create a bigger tax burden on the middle class.
A vote for Trump is a vote for, Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller and all the dangerous militias in the country (Proud boys/Neo Nazis etc.)
I was born and bred in Washington, DC. I was brought up reading the Washington Post. When Jeff Bezos bought the Post I was initially upset as I never want to see the plutocratic class running our news outlets, but, the Post remained a good paper overall. (I am progressive so for me it has never been as good as under Katharine Graham, but time moves on) But, in time, my initial intuition was correct, Bezos will ruin the newspaper; 1) he's not a newsman and has no allegiance to the business he bought, it just money for him, 2) IT'S JUST MONEY for him, integrity doesn't matter, 3) the common good is not an elite class concern.
The Murdochs are a cancer on society. Their tentacles run deep in the fake news business and have no business at the Wapo.
Hell the Murdochs have no business in any MSM entity, FUX news would be another. What did they pay to keep Rupert from having to testify in open court, was it $787+ million, something like that, if my memory is correct, they spent that money because they lied. Proven liars have no business in any MSM, we can’t afford to have lies stirred into our political mix.
“I don't know a single person at the Post who thinks the current situation with the publisher and supposed new editor can stand. There might be a few, but very very few. Jeff Bezos owns the Post but he is not of and for the Post or he would understand. The issue is one of integrity not resistance to change.”—David Marrannis
Looks like Marrannis was partially right. Robert Winnett will not be the Editor of the WP. The center held, and Winnett has decided to stay with the Telegraph in London.
Granted, this debacle is far from over? Or as Steve has stated:
“The last thing we need in this country is to import the British media ethos and epic scumbaggery of men like Piers Morgan, Will Lewis, or really anyone associated with any of it. It is disgusting.”
The MSM is becoming unbearable to tolerate, in its quest for more subscribers, better ratings and advertising dollars. Their methods are destroying the reputation of the Fourth Estate, and putting our democracy and republic at grave risk.
It’s time to fight back because the greedy billionaires are buying all of our main stream media, and revered periodicals; becoming tools for tyrants and fools, with too much money, and time on their hands.
And as Steve stated so eloquently; it’s a debacle: N’est-ce pas?”…:)
One of the article, before all this, that WaPo's Dana Millbank wrote: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/08/11/rural-america-lessons-local-news/
He, and Andy Alexander (originally w/ Cox and in my hometown of Dayton, Ohio, the Cox Bureau in DC and then Ombudsman at WaPo and now doing far more interesting things in journalism) and working to fix print journalism and to help the demise of knowledge in and by communities. PBSNewsHour has aired a number of stories of small town paper crusaders.
We need more and we need a public willing to READ and absorb news.
I remember reading that when Dana Milbank first moved to rural VA.
He continues doing more. Thankfully.
My late husband’s career in the news business was mostly in broadcasting, but I think this observation also applies to print. The best of his employers were wealthy and interested in their community more than the bottom line. These included a radio station, a television station, and a national cable news provider. Other owners, interested in profit over service, had undistinguished operations. This seems to be a fundamental weakness in our system, which depends on the circulation of sound information. Good journalism appears to be a kind of philanthropy.
We must face it, our system has evolved into predatory capitalism; those not willing to compromise their values are driven out of business by their more ruthless competitors.
To save ourselves we need to stop the fascist/MAGA/Qanon/"Christian" movement AND create an economy that ends the grotesquely uneven distribution of wealth, ensures all people their basic needs, but maintains enough aspects of capitalism to provide incentive and reward to entrepreneurs, professionals, and those creative and hardworking individuals who help expand the economy.
Two economic proposals to achieve this: 1) a simple and truly progressive income tax applicable to individuals and corporations (Mitt Romney said corporations are people, which is true under American law) with no deductions. Off the top of my head, if you earn under $40,000, no taxes, $40-60 (10%), $60-100 (15%), 100,000-200,000 (20%), $200,000-500,000 (40%), over $500,000 (65%). Obviously these figures would have to adjusted to meet our actual budgetary needs. 2) A law forbidding any employer, including government, to pay their highest paid employee more than 10X what their lowest employee makes.
Simplistic? In a way yes. Possible? If we cared enough.
During Ike’s presidency the highest rates were 90%. Lowering them then the rich buying their loopholes has caused our problems.
Politicians who value power, money and greed only exasperate the problem.
I know about the rates under Eisenhower; however, by eliminating all loopholes AND deductions the federal government would wind up with more revenue than by simply raising nominal rates. And, if my second suggestion were adopted, there would be far less need for welfare spending.
When I say all deductions, I mean ALL, even for dependent children, as the money a working person took home should support a reasonably sized family. We would have a single payer national health care system, cutting out all the money wasted on profits and advertising by health insurance companies that are more interested in ensuring their profits than our health. The profits from pharmaceutical sales would end. Doctors and all other people should be able to attend public universities at no cost and when they begin to serve should receive salaries from $150,000 to 300,000. The elimination of ridiculously high student loans and the elimination of the need for malpractice insurance would result in doctors, engineers and other professionals making more than they do now. The government could award reasonable amounts to those who were victims of malpractice or, their families in case of death.
Corporations would exist to make a profit, but should realize their main goal is to provide consumers the goods they wantat fair prices. Competition among those producing clothing, electronics, and other goods is fine and gives us variety. But corporations should be strictly regulated to protect the environment and consumers.
Wage limits on the gap between lowest paid workers and highest paid would apply to CEOs and we wouldn't face the current contradiction of companies not doing well, Boeing for example, paying their CEO's obscenely high salaries.
The reality is so horrifying I escape through dreaming about what could be instead of what is, much as John Lennon did in "Imagine." Thank you for giving me the opportunity to live in that dream while I responded to you. Let's keep dreaming and hoping.
In the horrible event of Trump winning the country will need legitimate news sources more than ever, and the remnants of whatever might remain of real journalism will have to serve as the bastion of hope that the country can claw its way back from fascism, sources of fact and opinion that tell the country, "It doesn't have to be this way. There was a time when it wasn't and we can bring that back."
Under a second Trump presidency there will bo no legitimate journalism or news, except from sources willing to run the risk of using underground networks.
How will you know real reporting?
Use your critical thinking skills. If you don't have them, learn about them.
Watch last night’s Bill Maher’s show. He explains people of your age perfectly.
I love Bill Mahar but I didn't watch or record his show, nor do I have "on demand." I am really curious and would love a brief summary of his explanation of people my age and what it has to do with critical thinking skills.
I’m kind of astonished that the Post has to import a British tabloid expert. This is the Woodward Bernstein Post. Haven’t we had enough of the oh so British tabloid ethos here with the NY Post, Fox News and anything else daddy Rupert touches? These guys are the new King George’s: they think they know better than we in the poor pitiful colony across the Atlantic. C’mon Jeff: boot the British!
Why would Bezos purchase the Post but to keep it a publication that he could trust for his own edification, then we would all benefit? He could be proud of preserving one reliable source and all of the other chaos. (An honorable wealthy person - rare).
I actually thought (and still think) Bezos has that kind of ethos. That he knows what the right thing to do here is, for the Post, its readers and the nation it serves.
Too bad he doesn't seem to have any ethos regarding the slave wages he pays at Amazon.
Thank you. That reassuring. And I hope he is inspiring (a lot better than owning a football team).
It is why I dropped my subscription. I would renew if I saw change at the top.
You mean ownership?
Yes, and I should have said that. Thanks for the correction.😊
It wasn't a correction from me - it was truly a question. Thanks for clarifying.
A Canadians, WP is the only American newspaper to which my husband and I subscribe, albeit in digital format, and we are at the tipping point of cancelling it. We hear enough BS, exaggerations and lies from other media outlets and unless management cleans up its mess, we will end our relationship with the Post. BTW, I’ve just read that Winnett has decided to continue his employment with The Telegraph and that the search is now on to find a substitute.
Steve, great to hear of Dorothy Thompson, and great point about foreign owned media! I’ve been thinking that in modern times, with the scale of reach in modern media, this is an issue of national security.
There should be a federal law preventing ownership of news/journalistic entities by foreign nationals.
I don't understand why we allow these un-Americans to write and talk trash about Americans. I think they should talk and write trash in their own country about their own people.
Dare I say Katharine Graham would be rolling over in her grave?
From an obit on Graham: "Mrs. Graham's imprint was the product both of her values, which suffused the paper, and of the crucial decisions she made about its leadership and direction. At The Post and Newsweek, she chose great editors, such as The Post's Benjamin Bradlee, and then gave them the independence and resources they needed to produce strong journalism."
Everything the Murdochs touch turns to s**t. Rupert is the poster boy for evil and his son Lachlan is not far behind. One must wonder why some people become so insufferably nasty and toxic. Worse is how they stamp a wide and nefarious imprint on society at large. Murdoch's native Australia has little use or respect for him, so he brought his stench-filled stench to the United States by way of Ronald Reagan.
As to the Washington Post, its mantra is “Democracy dies in darkness.” Add to that, democracy also dies under subterfuge. Jeff Bezos, the uber-rich titan of Amazon could care less about the integrity of the Post. By all rights, no one person should possess that much wealth or lord over that much influence. At least Bezos is not as noxious as Musk. (Fingers crossed.)
When I moved to DC in 1978, there was no question I'd subscribe to WaPo. Then, living in a high-rise near Dupont Circle, there was one outside every single door in the morning. Over time, I've kept my print subscription, adding digital options for access. In the building where I live now - another high-rise in the District - there may be two or three others (of 160 units) that gets a paper in print, WaPo or any, daily. THIS has angered me so much that, like w/ the NY Times, I'm struggling to keep ANY subscription. It's duty, loyalty, town-of-choice. And it hurts.
Steve, a great column!
In Bonfire of the Vanities, written almost 40 years ago, Tom Wolfe contextualizes the infiltration of class-conscious British tabloid culture into the American press. In case anyone has the book handy, I recommend reading chapter 7, in which Peter Fallow reflects on the British takeover of American journalism, and on the specific motivations of his boss Steiner. A couple of excerpts:
"Like more than one Englishman in New York, (Fallow) looked upon Americans as hopeless children whom Providence had perversely provided with this great swollen fat fowl of a continent. Any way one chose to relieve them of their riches, short of violence, was sporting, if not morally justifiable, since they would only squander it in some tasteless and useless fashion, in any event."
"People wondered why Steiner, who had no background in journalism, had come to the United States and undertaken the extremely costly business of setting up a tabloid newspaper. The smart explanation was that The City Light had been created as the weapon of attack or reprisal for Steiner’s much more important financial investments in the United States, where he was already known as “the Dread Brit.” But Fallow knew it was the other way around. The “serious” investments existed at the service of The City Light. Steiner had been reared, schooled, drilled, and handed a fortune by Old Steiner, a loud and pompous self-made financier who wanted to turn his son into a proper British peer, not just a rich Jewish boy. Steiner fils had become the well-mannered, well-educated, well-dressed, proper mouse his father required. He had never found the courage to rebel. Now, late in life, he had discovered the world of the tabloids. His daily dive into the mud-- "scalp grandma, then rob her"-- brought him inexpressible joy. Uhuru! Free at last! Every day he rolled up his sleeves and plunged into the life of the city room. Some days he wrote headlines himself. It was possible that he had written "scalp grandma", although that had the inimitable touch of his managing editor, a Liverpool prole named Brian Highridge. . . . "
Thank you for bringing this nightmare into the light of day. July 4, 2024 may be th
…the last celebration of democracy and freedom in America.
...and I don't feel like celebrating. I'd rather send postcards or do work to elect good people. I thought I was fearful in 2020. Now? Reading the June issue of The Nation and the analysis of Project 2025 has been an effort in trying to find peace w/in myself while I fear the very worst.
For decades the extreme right has been taking over the news and the Dems have done little or nothing to warn the public. Fox News (owned by an Australian), Sinclair has taken over most local radio/TV news around the country etc. Now we are losing the W.Post, the only National Newspaper that still tells the truth. The weakness of the Dems is mind-blowing. The billionaires have all the power and they decide what the narrative will be (in their interest only). Brainwashing the masses through the media is the most powerful tool they have ,because they have nothing of substance to offer the public. The weak messaging of Biden and the Dems has brought us to this point. Biden does not understand the mood of the people, he believes that the polls are wrong. Attacking Trump does not work with the white males,
Biden has to attack Trumps failures of the past and his very destructive view of his future policies. Deporting 20 million immigrants will result in mass bankruptcies and many Americans will become unemployed. Who is going to do the hard and dirty work in the fields/factories/slaughterhouses/hospitality business, immigrants are the hardest workers and the economy will collapse without them. The anti abortion law will result in increased poverty ,homelessness, increase in social services (foster care etc.) babies born with severe handicaps will require millions of dollars in medical costs. The poor cannot afford any of this besides the terrible mental toll it puts on women/girls. The tax payers will have to foot the bills. The crime rate dropped by 31% when Roe v Wade became the law. Not 1 democrat talks about any of this, even though the people on the right are most concerned about their finances . The GOP will give more tax cuts to the billionairs this will create a bigger tax burden on the middle class.
A vote for Trump is a vote for, Steve Bannon, Stephen Miller and all the dangerous militias in the country (Proud boys/Neo Nazis etc.)
As always in American capitalism, follow the money. (It’s easy: the circumstances may vary, but the aroma remains the same).
I was born and bred in Washington, DC. I was brought up reading the Washington Post. When Jeff Bezos bought the Post I was initially upset as I never want to see the plutocratic class running our news outlets, but, the Post remained a good paper overall. (I am progressive so for me it has never been as good as under Katharine Graham, but time moves on) But, in time, my initial intuition was correct, Bezos will ruin the newspaper; 1) he's not a newsman and has no allegiance to the business he bought, it just money for him, 2) IT'S JUST MONEY for him, integrity doesn't matter, 3) the common good is not an elite class concern.
This is the first thing I've read that has given me a glimmer of hope. Thank you!