If the "Morning Joe" meeting with Trump wasn't already poorly received, the explanations coming from Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski certainly aren't helping the situation.
Steve you are correct about Mika and Joe! Hopefully, somebody will buy MSNBC and keep the best journalists such as Lawrence O’Donnell, Nicole Wallace and Rachel Maddow and dump the cowards Joe and Mika!!! Keep speaking truth to power!!!
It would kill two birds with one stone: turn the left-leaning media on its head and get Musk out of his hair. I can't imagine Trump is going to tolerate Musk prancing around the West Wing for too long and pulling up a chair to sit in on calls to heads of state.
I am sorry but Although I hate that Mika and Joe went to see His crappiness I think it’s time to stop crucifying them for trying to protect their livelihood. We don’t know what they said but Trump was threatening the entire network and there are a lot of other really good people working on MSNBC! I watch every day because it’s the only network where they actually explain things and aren’t Right Wing!
Tragically MB & JS as well as President Biden will likely learn the same lesson from their post-election meetings with DT -- their efforts to normalize protocols and conversations will not temper DT's plan for retribution. All three will remain on his list. We're counting on you, Steve, along with selected other Substack hosts, the Daily Kos, TBR and other independent voices to speak truth to power without exceptions.
Mika and Joe are nothing but COWARDS through and through. When the going got tough they showed who they REALLY are and folded like a house of cards. You surely would NEVER want these two in a fox hole with you. They would turn and run at the first sign of trouble and leave your back exposed. Send them a message - shut them off.......... There are MUCH better people, who care, and are fighting the good fight, support them wherever you find them - and share all the good these other people and organizations are doing (even as the incoming administration will try to shut down any and all organizations that oppose them).
This video is really sad. Mika just keeps digging a deeper hole. She should probably take a vacation and experience some deep reflection. Honestly, the fact that she keeps attempting to explain away the betrayal (no matter what the reason or reasons) is a window into her guilty conscience.
> "She should probably take a vacation and experience some deep reflection."
More importantly, how do we get 49% of the American voters to "experience some deep reflection"? The reporting was out there, including from Joe and Mika, that Trump is a convicted felon, a pathological liar, a misogynistic sociopath, a rapist, and a fraud of the highest order. 49% of Americans don't care? 49% of Americans cover their ears and sing "La la la"? WTF?
If only we had the answer to this question. The divide is reflected in my own family and is spilling over to non-political areas of life. I'm worried about becoming insulated from other opinions if we can't even have civil conversations.
I started the women’s track program at Indiana University in 1978 and really witnessed misogyny for the first time in my life when the athletic director told me that the women’s track program would never have the schedule the men’s team had! The second year of the program we went to the national Indoor Track & Field Championships at the University of Missouri and scored 14 points and finished 13th in the nation and the men’s team at IU went to their indoor national championships and scored one point. Who had the better track team? When an unfortunate pregnant woman in Texas suffered a miscarriage and was NOT TREATED at 3 different hospitals for FORTY HOURS and then died of sepsis is A DARK STAIN ON THIS NATION! 10-15% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage because it is nature’s way to stop a malformed fetus! Any rational woman or man who can look at this sanctioned torture and death of this poor woman in Texas and then turn around and vote for the ogre that initiated this process for president by putting three liars on the U.S. Supreme Court who overturned Roe is beyond my comprehension! What if that woman was your daughter or sister or wife? The carnage Trump talked about in 2016 is here!!!
Steve, you’ve become my guiding light through these troubling times when the truth is like finding brilliant shinning gold when all you were hoping to find was your sanity and a bit of peace!!
Certain who have commented here have suggested that Steve has devoted enough space to this story and should move on. I disagree. MSNBC has been the only domestic broadcast network to consistently push back on Trump and his fascist enterprise. Their entire programming is dedicated to such. The legacy networks have done an awful job. Their evening news consists of maybe 15 minutes of actual “news” done far too rapidly and in no depth, and the rest consists of commercials and silly human interest stories that have no business being part of the national news. Their Sunday morning programming is religiously devoted to bothsideism and in general they may be expected to normalize Trump and bend over backwards to prove their “impartiality” going forward. Their corporate owners or CEO’s will demand this, fearing Trump’s retribution, already evidenced by lawsuits he has commenced against them. I never watch them as they are entirely useless as a reliable and critical news source. It remains to be seen if MSNBC will continue in pushback mode under its new leadership and once it has been spun off. MJ has played perhaps the most important role in the network’s lineup, consistently calling out Trump and his enablers and their disastrous policies and plans during its influential 4-hour morning time slot. What Joe and Mika did was to compromise the entire credibility of their network’s stance against Trumpism and their actions should be absolutely condemned for all of the reasons explained by Steve. Of course, instead of recognizing and apologizing for their grave misstep, they have chosen to double, triple and quadruple down, just as always do Trump and his enablers, whom they have frequently condemned for such maneuvering. Their obvious ploy is to hope all of this will blow over in a couple weeks, permitting them to continue their grift for which they are paid staggering sums. Of course, the only way they will be held accountable is if their ratings continue to tank, to the extent that their bosses will have no choice but to replace them with trustworthy and competent journalists, who will be unafraid to “speak truth to power.” Only then will I tune back in. But meanwhile, the criticism of Joe and Mika should continue unabated. To allow it to “blow over” by “moving on” is exactly what Joe and Mika have calculated will happen. I earnestly hope they are wrong.
Excellent Steve, although you’re preaching to the choir. Mika and Joe are not journalists, they’re talking bobbleheads, just more accomplished than their counterparts at the Fox Fantasy Network.
I’ve always found their show nothing more than a pleasant distraction. Their guests are just as clueless as they are, and I stopped watching when the announcement was made. I wasn’t shocked; however, since I never considered them a news source, just infotainment!
Clearly, their decision to meet with Trump was about self-interest! And the consequences of that meeting have been swift and deadly; ratings are down over 38%, and falling precipitously.
Steve, you are 100% correct! The lame-stream media just signed their own death certificate, and wrote their own obituary! There is no coming back from this, and America is truly worse off for the effort.
So farewell to Joe and Mika, as well as all media entities who profit from propaganda—light programming, and whose main concern is access and ratings. You $10’million a year salaries have left you worthless and weak, and a waste of anyone’s time or money! Time to move on!…:)
I have not turned on a TV since 9/11/2002. I happen to remember the date because I was in my husband’s hospital room, and he wanted to watch the memorial service acknowledging the horrors of the previous 9/11. I find it amazing that the movie “Network” was originally considered a parody of the news. We thought then that it was funny. Throw your TV out the window! We’re not gonna take it anymore!
The joke’s on us. Paddy Chayefsky was journalism’s Nostradamus. And for what it’s worth, I have a B.S. in journalism, Kent State, 1975. The “B.S.” now seems so perfect. Perhaps I should throw my degree over the fence and onto the White House lawn this January.
Steve, I’m proud to subscribe to your Substack channel. You have always spoken truth to power.
I followed Joe and Mika until I discovered they had puckered up to kiss Donald Trump’s wrinkled ass. They sold out: to save themselves from retaliation. Joe and Mika traded their credibility for access and a paycheck. Even FOX shamed them throughput the day.
I remember Zbigniew Brzezinski. He would be ashamed to see his daughter sellout for someone as unhinged as Trump. Disgraceful.
I remember clearly the first time I heard the name Zbigneiw Brzezinski when Carter was president! I was just becoming politically mature enough to sort of, kind of understand how complicated our government was and
and as a somewhat new voter I always wondered how in the world I would ever have
any real deep understanding of the many layers of this organism that I was dependent on and my dad had fought in WW2 and Korea for. We were a typical baby boomer family of 5 children and money was always tight but we
had a daily news paper,Life and Look magazines and National Geographic and were expected to read and had Library Cards as children. I still feel compelled to watch the 6:30 news as a tip of the hat to my long deceased father more for the memory than the news itself which I consume way too much of on line.I detest ignorance. I am an optimist but a pragmatic one and I just don’t see how America recovers from this breach. I can walk to the graveyard where my father is buried if I could physically do it!! Five years before my father died of a heart attack he finally had one of his old wounded legs amputated. Thirty five years after the battle of the Bulge where he was the only soldier in a jeep of four to survive a mine explosion!💥He was in and out of the VA hospital all his life. He always worked hard and suffer wounds that never healed and they took as good a care of that old leg as they could until it was way too far gone and for the sake of his life had to go. He suffered phantom pain and severe never burning and twitching until the very end. My sisters and I often talk about how hard our parents life was because of health struggles. Now that we are playing in the last quarter of our game and are preparing to folk up these old worn out temporary tents we are inhabiting we love and respect the arduous journey our parents had. They were honest,generous and kind and I’m glad that they are not here to witness the demise of our once great country at the hands of MAGAites
many of whom have never committed one selfless act of service to country or kin!
My dad used the fork and spoon to his army mess kit until the very end!(Google it) Those men and women died gifting us this country and less than a majority of voters have been allowed to lay this hard won freedoms at the feet of the counterfeit God of the golden escalator and his subservient Supreme Court priests and priestesses to abort and tread asunder the blood of those who gave all. 💔
We should be ashamed to have sold our Birthright for a bowl of soup! Our freedom
for clowns in the Coliseum!!!
Our for fathers will not forgive!
The current administration is as dangerous and malevolent as anything the Third Reich ever produced! There is no magical thinking or pixie dust for the intelligence laziness and lack of civic knowledge that this election exposed!
It reminds me of the partially exposed Statue of Liberty🗽 in the Original Planet of the Apes movie when Charleston Heston realized he is in fact still on planet earth where the history has been erased and turned upside down!
Steve, a very susinct analysis of one of the most terrifying problems we have- the self interest of media. Everyone should do what they can to prevent this crap. I have turned off Mika and Joe - never really got them to be honest and I only watch Lawrence and Rachel who I believe are not bought. I listen and subscribe to podcasts and I READ.
I cut the cable cord last week. I hope Rachel gets a better place to talk to us. Nicole and Lawrence too. In the meantime I look for them on the MSNBC app or YouTube .
Steve, once again you are spot on! When my late husband was alive, every morning for years we watched Mika and Joe; like clockwork. Mika and Joe were not married, but it became evident that something was going on. We loved them until we could not stand them. His constant interruption was nerve wracking. As for Mika, I am not sure if it was because she was raised in a family with high powered men, but she behaved like a little girl trying to get the attention of daddy. So we switched to CNN, I could not be happier. Please Steve, just keep doing what you do the best; this 82 year old woman enjoys hearing your perspective on everything you have to say, and incidentally, I love that you are a dog lover, and yours is a beauty.
I am so with you as you now assess Joe & Mike. I never watched their show much because I don’t get up that early, but recently I made myself watch or more accurately listen to them on msnbc via the TuneIn app. I couldn’t stand them at all. Joe comes across to me as an arrogant asshole, who interrupts & talks over Mike & guests.
I fail to see how Mike can talk about “knowing her value” when she allows Joe to disrespect her on air nearly every time she speaks. It’s embarrassing to me, & makes me wonder how he treats her when the cameras aren’t there?
I will only tune in for Nicole, Rachel, & Lawrence on msnbc, & for the remainder of my news & education will watch Meidas Touch Network & read the many Substack authors that I subscribe to.
I also became a founding member of Zeteo, as soon as Medhi Hassan announced he was starting it. I was so pissed off when msnbc made it plain to Medhi that they didn’t appreciate his truthfulness.
Thank you Steve. Incidentally, I use to send your posts to my sister and I always wanted to buy a subscription for her, but she beat me to punch as the other day or so I had a notice that someone you might know is now subscribed and it was my 88 year old sister. If we were in wheelchairs I would call us the wheelchair brigade for Steve. As for me I just moved to San Diego from New Jersey and I walk every where, as I sold my car. Still kicking but not quite as high!
"The worst thing that could happen was not that Hitler became President, but that you didn't have a seat at Hitler's table." That was your best-crafted YouTube video yet, I think. First one that made me cry a little at the end.
Steve you are correct about Mika and Joe! Hopefully, somebody will buy MSNBC and keep the best journalists such as Lawrence O’Donnell, Nicole Wallace and Rachel Maddow and dump the cowards Joe and Mika!!! Keep speaking truth to power!!!
Thom Hartmann is reporting that Trump is encouraging Elon Musk to buy MSNBC. Sigh...
OMG. This is the end of democracy in a once-almost-great society. We are in that moment.
Thank you Steve - so brave.
It would kill two birds with one stone: turn the left-leaning media on its head and get Musk out of his hair. I can't imagine Trump is going to tolerate Musk prancing around the West Wing for too long and pulling up a chair to sit in on calls to heads of state.
I am sorry but Although I hate that Mika and Joe went to see His crappiness I think it’s time to stop crucifying them for trying to protect their livelihood. We don’t know what they said but Trump was threatening the entire network and there are a lot of other really good people working on MSNBC! I watch every day because it’s the only network where they actually explain things and aren’t Right Wing!
Tragically MB & JS as well as President Biden will likely learn the same lesson from their post-election meetings with DT -- their efforts to normalize protocols and conversations will not temper DT's plan for retribution. All three will remain on his list. We're counting on you, Steve, along with selected other Substack hosts, the Daily Kos, TBR and other independent voices to speak truth to power without exceptions.
Mika and Joe are nothing but COWARDS through and through. When the going got tough they showed who they REALLY are and folded like a house of cards. You surely would NEVER want these two in a fox hole with you. They would turn and run at the first sign of trouble and leave your back exposed. Send them a message - shut them off.......... There are MUCH better people, who care, and are fighting the good fight, support them wherever you find them - and share all the good these other people and organizations are doing (even as the incoming administration will try to shut down any and all organizations that oppose them).
"Shut them off" is good advice.
This video is really sad. Mika just keeps digging a deeper hole. She should probably take a vacation and experience some deep reflection. Honestly, the fact that she keeps attempting to explain away the betrayal (no matter what the reason or reasons) is a window into her guilty conscience.
> "She should probably take a vacation and experience some deep reflection."
More importantly, how do we get 49% of the American voters to "experience some deep reflection"? The reporting was out there, including from Joe and Mika, that Trump is a convicted felon, a pathological liar, a misogynistic sociopath, a rapist, and a fraud of the highest order. 49% of Americans don't care? 49% of Americans cover their ears and sing "La la la"? WTF?
If only we had the answer to this question. The divide is reflected in my own family and is spilling over to non-political areas of life. I'm worried about becoming insulated from other opinions if we can't even have civil conversations.
I started the women’s track program at Indiana University in 1978 and really witnessed misogyny for the first time in my life when the athletic director told me that the women’s track program would never have the schedule the men’s team had! The second year of the program we went to the national Indoor Track & Field Championships at the University of Missouri and scored 14 points and finished 13th in the nation and the men’s team at IU went to their indoor national championships and scored one point. Who had the better track team? When an unfortunate pregnant woman in Texas suffered a miscarriage and was NOT TREATED at 3 different hospitals for FORTY HOURS and then died of sepsis is A DARK STAIN ON THIS NATION! 10-15% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage because it is nature’s way to stop a malformed fetus! Any rational woman or man who can look at this sanctioned torture and death of this poor woman in Texas and then turn around and vote for the ogre that initiated this process for president by putting three liars on the U.S. Supreme Court who overturned Roe is beyond my comprehension! What if that woman was your daughter or sister or wife? The carnage Trump talked about in 2016 is here!!!
I hate that Rachel and Nicole are collateral damage in this. I don’t want Musk to buy NBC. Please keep doing what you do!
And Lawrence O’Donnell too
I e-mailed MSNBC that I will no longer watch Morning Joe.
I learned better journalistic practices in my high school journalism classes that taking a knee to a dictatorial fascist.
No amount of money or self-degradation behavior is appropriate to bow down to a dictator.
Steve, you’ve become my guiding light through these troubling times when the truth is like finding brilliant shinning gold when all you were hoping to find was your sanity and a bit of peace!!
Thank you for your support!
Steve
Certain who have commented here have suggested that Steve has devoted enough space to this story and should move on. I disagree. MSNBC has been the only domestic broadcast network to consistently push back on Trump and his fascist enterprise. Their entire programming is dedicated to such. The legacy networks have done an awful job. Their evening news consists of maybe 15 minutes of actual “news” done far too rapidly and in no depth, and the rest consists of commercials and silly human interest stories that have no business being part of the national news. Their Sunday morning programming is religiously devoted to bothsideism and in general they may be expected to normalize Trump and bend over backwards to prove their “impartiality” going forward. Their corporate owners or CEO’s will demand this, fearing Trump’s retribution, already evidenced by lawsuits he has commenced against them. I never watch them as they are entirely useless as a reliable and critical news source. It remains to be seen if MSNBC will continue in pushback mode under its new leadership and once it has been spun off. MJ has played perhaps the most important role in the network’s lineup, consistently calling out Trump and his enablers and their disastrous policies and plans during its influential 4-hour morning time slot. What Joe and Mika did was to compromise the entire credibility of their network’s stance against Trumpism and their actions should be absolutely condemned for all of the reasons explained by Steve. Of course, instead of recognizing and apologizing for their grave misstep, they have chosen to double, triple and quadruple down, just as always do Trump and his enablers, whom they have frequently condemned for such maneuvering. Their obvious ploy is to hope all of this will blow over in a couple weeks, permitting them to continue their grift for which they are paid staggering sums. Of course, the only way they will be held accountable is if their ratings continue to tank, to the extent that their bosses will have no choice but to replace them with trustworthy and competent journalists, who will be unafraid to “speak truth to power.” Only then will I tune back in. But meanwhile, the criticism of Joe and Mika should continue unabated. To allow it to “blow over” by “moving on” is exactly what Joe and Mika have calculated will happen. I earnestly hope they are wrong.
Excellent Steve, although you’re preaching to the choir. Mika and Joe are not journalists, they’re talking bobbleheads, just more accomplished than their counterparts at the Fox Fantasy Network.
I’ve always found their show nothing more than a pleasant distraction. Their guests are just as clueless as they are, and I stopped watching when the announcement was made. I wasn’t shocked; however, since I never considered them a news source, just infotainment!
Clearly, their decision to meet with Trump was about self-interest! And the consequences of that meeting have been swift and deadly; ratings are down over 38%, and falling precipitously.
Steve, you are 100% correct! The lame-stream media just signed their own death certificate, and wrote their own obituary! There is no coming back from this, and America is truly worse off for the effort.
So farewell to Joe and Mika, as well as all media entities who profit from propaganda—light programming, and whose main concern is access and ratings. You $10’million a year salaries have left you worthless and weak, and a waste of anyone’s time or money! Time to move on!…:)
most everything on the air just infotainment with little depth and monetization the driving force.
I have not turned on a TV since 9/11/2002. I happen to remember the date because I was in my husband’s hospital room, and he wanted to watch the memorial service acknowledging the horrors of the previous 9/11. I find it amazing that the movie “Network” was originally considered a parody of the news. We thought then that it was funny. Throw your TV out the window! We’re not gonna take it anymore!
The joke’s on us. Paddy Chayefsky was journalism’s Nostradamus. And for what it’s worth, I have a B.S. in journalism, Kent State, 1975. The “B.S.” now seems so perfect. Perhaps I should throw my degree over the fence and onto the White House lawn this January.
All true, and well said. And Idiocracy should be a documentary by now…:)
“Commemorating” would have been a better word than “acknowledging.” I should have read my comment before posting. Sorry.
Steve, I’m proud to subscribe to your Substack channel. You have always spoken truth to power.
I followed Joe and Mika until I discovered they had puckered up to kiss Donald Trump’s wrinkled ass. They sold out: to save themselves from retaliation. Joe and Mika traded their credibility for access and a paycheck. Even FOX shamed them throughput the day.
I remember Zbigniew Brzezinski. He would be ashamed to see his daughter sellout for someone as unhinged as Trump. Disgraceful.
Thanks for being here, Todd!
Steve
I remember clearly the first time I heard the name Zbigneiw Brzezinski when Carter was president! I was just becoming politically mature enough to sort of, kind of understand how complicated our government was and
and as a somewhat new voter I always wondered how in the world I would ever have
any real deep understanding of the many layers of this organism that I was dependent on and my dad had fought in WW2 and Korea for. We were a typical baby boomer family of 5 children and money was always tight but we
had a daily news paper,Life and Look magazines and National Geographic and were expected to read and had Library Cards as children. I still feel compelled to watch the 6:30 news as a tip of the hat to my long deceased father more for the memory than the news itself which I consume way too much of on line.I detest ignorance. I am an optimist but a pragmatic one and I just don’t see how America recovers from this breach. I can walk to the graveyard where my father is buried if I could physically do it!! Five years before my father died of a heart attack he finally had one of his old wounded legs amputated. Thirty five years after the battle of the Bulge where he was the only soldier in a jeep of four to survive a mine explosion!💥He was in and out of the VA hospital all his life. He always worked hard and suffer wounds that never healed and they took as good a care of that old leg as they could until it was way too far gone and for the sake of his life had to go. He suffered phantom pain and severe never burning and twitching until the very end. My sisters and I often talk about how hard our parents life was because of health struggles. Now that we are playing in the last quarter of our game and are preparing to folk up these old worn out temporary tents we are inhabiting we love and respect the arduous journey our parents had. They were honest,generous and kind and I’m glad that they are not here to witness the demise of our once great country at the hands of MAGAites
many of whom have never committed one selfless act of service to country or kin!
My dad used the fork and spoon to his army mess kit until the very end!(Google it) Those men and women died gifting us this country and less than a majority of voters have been allowed to lay this hard won freedoms at the feet of the counterfeit God of the golden escalator and his subservient Supreme Court priests and priestesses to abort and tread asunder the blood of those who gave all. 💔
We should be ashamed to have sold our Birthright for a bowl of soup! Our freedom
for clowns in the Coliseum!!!
Our for fathers will not forgive!
The current administration is as dangerous and malevolent as anything the Third Reich ever produced! There is no magical thinking or pixie dust for the intelligence laziness and lack of civic knowledge that this election exposed!
It reminds me of the partially exposed Statue of Liberty🗽 in the Original Planet of the Apes movie when Charleston Heston realized he is in fact still on planet earth where the history has been erased and turned upside down!
“We have met the enemy and he is us!” ⏳⌛️
Steve, a very susinct analysis of one of the most terrifying problems we have- the self interest of media. Everyone should do what they can to prevent this crap. I have turned off Mika and Joe - never really got them to be honest and I only watch Lawrence and Rachel who I believe are not bought. I listen and subscribe to podcasts and I READ.
I cut the cable cord last week. I hope Rachel gets a better place to talk to us. Nicole and Lawrence too. In the meantime I look for them on the MSNBC app or YouTube .
Steve, once again you are spot on! When my late husband was alive, every morning for years we watched Mika and Joe; like clockwork. Mika and Joe were not married, but it became evident that something was going on. We loved them until we could not stand them. His constant interruption was nerve wracking. As for Mika, I am not sure if it was because she was raised in a family with high powered men, but she behaved like a little girl trying to get the attention of daddy. So we switched to CNN, I could not be happier. Please Steve, just keep doing what you do the best; this 82 year old woman enjoys hearing your perspective on everything you have to say, and incidentally, I love that you are a dog lover, and yours is a beauty.
Thanks for your kind words…and I adore my dogs!!
Steve
I am so with you as you now assess Joe & Mike. I never watched their show much because I don’t get up that early, but recently I made myself watch or more accurately listen to them on msnbc via the TuneIn app. I couldn’t stand them at all. Joe comes across to me as an arrogant asshole, who interrupts & talks over Mike & guests.
I fail to see how Mike can talk about “knowing her value” when she allows Joe to disrespect her on air nearly every time she speaks. It’s embarrassing to me, & makes me wonder how he treats her when the cameras aren’t there?
I will only tune in for Nicole, Rachel, & Lawrence on msnbc, & for the remainder of my news & education will watch Meidas Touch Network & read the many Substack authors that I subscribe to.
I also became a founding member of Zeteo, as soon as Medhi Hassan announced he was starting it. I was so pissed off when msnbc made it plain to Medhi that they didn’t appreciate his truthfulness.
Sorry I didn’t notice that autocorrect had changed Mika to Mike. dang it.
Thank you Steve. Incidentally, I use to send your posts to my sister and I always wanted to buy a subscription for her, but she beat me to punch as the other day or so I had a notice that someone you might know is now subscribed and it was my 88 year old sister. If we were in wheelchairs I would call us the wheelchair brigade for Steve. As for me I just moved to San Diego from New Jersey and I walk every where, as I sold my car. Still kicking but not quite as high!
Keep kicking, and glad that your sister has joined us here too.
Steve
"The worst thing that could happen was not that Hitler became President, but that you didn't have a seat at Hitler's table." That was your best-crafted YouTube video yet, I think. First one that made me cry a little at the end.
How can I like this if I made you cry?
Steve
Steve, you and Nicolle Wallace and Rachel Maddow are still my shining heroes!!!!!!! ❤️