I’m with Newsome and what he said afterward in response to all the gloom and doom.
For 50 years this man has been a dedicated patriot. He had our back and now we need to have his. There is more to him, his cabinet, the healing they have accomplished and their plans to continue. No one said this was going to be easy, so it’s time to buck up and march forward.
Meanwhile, sorry to say, but I’m putting your negativity away for awhile.
Totally agree with Newsom and with your views. I think it's awesome to see the positivity, and not just the doom and gloom. It kind of shows where our head's at !
I agree with you. Mr. Biden had a bad night. This election is just gearing up. Let's go into overdrive and mow those magas over by voting Blue top to bottom. Don't give up, VOTE for Democracy.
Should we judge the whole of the man by an hour and a half against a loud, lying, ignorant, hateful idiot who is also a convicted felon- 34 times - by moderators who wouldn’t stop him and make him comply to the rules? I don’t think so.
I disagree. There’s no way Biden can win after last night. It wasn’t even close. I wish it were different, but it’s not. He appeared weak, confused, mumbling and disoriented. He wasn’t even looking in the right direction at times. Come on. Put country above party. Get someone else in there. Please. Otherwise Trump wins. Let’s get real.
I don't hear you saying that Donald Trump lied every time he opened his mouth - OR - Come on - Put country above party Republicans. Get someone else to represent the Republican Party.
P Audrey - absolutely agree with what you said. I assumed it goes without saying that the same applies to Trump - actually 100x because he’s literally a threat to our democracy and constitution. If fact I have a “country before party” sign in my front yard, specifically for that reason - republicans are putting their party and their desire for power above the well-being of our democracy. Even more reason why democrats need someone who can defeat Trump. I don’t think that’s Biden anymore.
Separate from who can beat Trump, the question becomes - is Biden even mentally fit to be president now? Can you imagine him responding in a coherent manner to an urgent presidential emergency? I can’t. It would be all the people around him making those critical decisions, not him. He’s become mentally feeble, which is evident when he’s not reading from a teleprompter. So that’s a second reason why we need someone else besides Biden.
I think he’s been a fine president. And it’s time to pass the torch.
Change horses in mid-stream? How do you get on all the ballots? Sounds like court cases galore to me - probably up to our corrupt Supreme Court. Stay calm and carry on. Wishful thinking won't get us out of this. Working to get out the common sense voters will.
Can we all agree that it would not be a bad idea to have several interviews with Biden in order to determine what may be going on with him? Sure, we heard him speak afterwards...but there were tele-prompters in front of him, and that always makes a difference for anyone. But in the real Race, there probably will not be! What then?
WE HAVE TO START TO ASK HIM QUESTIONS RELATING TO WHAT HAPPENED AND SEE IF WE CAN DETERMINE WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON WITH HIM, other than a cold, especially if he is not willing to forfeit Presidency.
Yes..thanks for repeated what Newsome had to say re: continuing support to Biden..that you don't give him up because of what occurred...that you continue to support him......The Problem is at this moment, is realistically, Our President appeared to have declined since the last major speech he gave to the country which was superior, and Only a few months ago. What happened to him last night? He did not look well at all.
The only person that could replace him is "NEWSOME". HE IS STRONG, ARTICULATE, KNOWS THE ISSUES, CAN FIGHT BACK OVER AND ABOVE THE CRAZY OTHER, AND WOULD WIN"......but he is the only one to take this chance with...NO one else is as capable and would know how to fight as he does!
Eva; we need to allow him to have a bad day like every one does from time to time. All of us would prefer that JB was younger but that isn’t the case. We need to consider the ramifications of him dropping four months from the election. That would be a very dangerous path. Trump is an immoral criminal!
I believe if Biden became incapacitated or died in his second term the country would still be okay. For perspective, FDR and JFK died in office and the US carried on without them.
We all need a week or so to regain our footing and continue the fight!
Yes, I agree. But it is normal for everyone to carry on after anyone passes. We all need someone like him and would prefer JB, but again, what we all say last night was a complete opposite to his last determined strength of a speech where the repubs could not tolerate his success & claimed he was on drugs. Goodness, what do we do with Reality when it arrives. All of us are in the same boat! We can't afford to Sink Now! We exist now in the moment with an urgency, to think fast...And the reality of it is that we have to confront it, or die.
Yes, give it a few days....but if Biden continues to think he did well, then this should cue us all into Urging him to let go, FOR THE SAKE OF OUR AMERICA!
Can we afford disagreement at this moment in time. Too Liberal? Once, this was a beautiful word. Today, it is hated? There are many people who would respond opposite to his not being popular in California. He stands hard against the Repubs, and has repeatedly.... speaks against what they are attempting to do to the U.S. in terms of our liberties. He represents a strength that is not presented in anyone in gov. Speaks HARD, with an internalized knowledge against those that wish to decrease the strength of this country.
Don't get me wrong. I like Newsom, especially his energy -- so unlike most timid Democrats who are constantly playing defense. I just don't see those in the middle or center-right voting for him. Andy Beshear, the twice-elected Democratic governor of Kentucky (a ruby-red state) would be my choice.
Steve is a good man, but I always have to remember he is a former Republican. Some things are hard to let go of, I'm sure. He has great insight and I respect his opinion on all political matters and he may be right, but we all need to step back and wait a to see what the next few days tell us.
Yes, Steve immediately started "I told you so". He seems to have never been pro-Biden.
I'm wondering if Biden was on cold medicine last night. Some of that can be problematic. Biden seemed to be way over-prepped and not himself. The real Biden is shown above in what May posted. It was a terrible debate. He should not be judged by that and thrown out!
You must be right Lisa believing he was on cold meds. Cause yesterday was like a transformation to his usual feistiness. Your observation begs Q...what the hell were his advisors thinking?? That makes the situation worse. Dem advisors are the worst.
I understand Steve's alarm. If 50 MILLION people hadn't watched this the damage could be fixed. Impressions matter and since the Democrats have a congenital inability to communicate effectively we have a problem. People finding themselves in life/death situations MUST try to calm & think clearly. Dems DO have a suicidal tendency to allow the diminished elderly to keep their positions to the detriment of vital goals....take Diane Feinstein. America is under massive assault from Putin, Netanyahu, & domestically from the fascist right wing. Leaders were needed that could think decisively, quickly with power/strength w/o compromise---for God's sakes your Democracy is at stake. We face brutal authoritarianism..not Bob Doles kindly republicanism. Bidens strategists/advisors have failed...will they take responsibility when we face the end. No...they will be fine $$$. WE will suffer horrifically just as the regular German folk suffered for 12 years. I wouldn't panic but for Christ's sake, 20% think it's Bidens fault Roe fell. Many still think crime is up, inflation up, & a portion think we are in a recession! Democrats inability to communicate truth will kill us all. It doesn't help that Dems allowed Reagan to destroy Fairness Doctrine & as a result the entire media ecosystem is a fascist cesspool of lies that Dems are drowning in. What are they going to do about it? 1990 solutions won't do.
So. Beyond hand wringing, what is your solution? Give up?
We can’t. I’m not.
I’m a senior without a millionaire’s portfolio.
A senior in a blue state.
A senior who has seen many elections that seemed in peril.
I am giving every spare penny I can for the fight in crucial states and sending messages to Biden campaigns in all of them, as well as carefully sharing my social media messaging.
We must look for positive messaging among the influentials, like O’Donnell’s take on the debate, Newsom’s superb, charismatic messaging skills and spread it as best we can, and forward truthful memes about Trump’s lies and 2025 threat.
The Party MUST send out articulate, charismatic surrogates to hammer the admin’s successes in loud,
LOCAL kitchen table examples.
We all must get on board this train. This is no time to wimp out.
Trump’s stock was up 8% post debate but today it is way down again, his ballon just collapsed. Biden again here. https://youtu.be/IEYONiZWjJc?si=DCq4_pz2lx1_oIvG. I don’t think that Biden continues because of his promise to Bo. I think it is the pack he made with the American people. For him to walk away he has to know and believe someone who can beat Donal Trump. Even Nikki Haley botched it. You have to give him the name of who can beat Trump in order for him to walk away now. It definitely was a terrible debate as were Biden’s past debates, including the democratic primary in 2020. No miracle to our pre debate prayers for sure. In spite of all that, last night still was a good sleeping night because Biden was still in charge. He was no Hilary Clinton in debating Trump. But he won and Hilary lost the election.
He appeared in that store completely different than in his debate. He looked better physically, and spoke better...you could actually hear him as opposed to how you could not make-out what he was saying.... So what is this.? How did this change occur? If he holds on to the idea that he did well and does not see how he appeared, then maybe he needs to be confronted with the fact that there appears to have been some decline in him. To hang on to a possible repeat of yesterday will cast our country into a fascist existence. We cannot wait long for a decision presently. If he walked onto the stage in Nov. this way, we will lose our way of life, our freedoms.
To be contrarian....hes reading from a teleprompter. The debate was a test to think on ones feet & quickly formulate responses to lies & state truths. 50 freekin million saw this debacle & I fear the damage is like a destroyer being hit by a torpedo. If I was confident in Democrats ability to communicate and convince Americans of truth its be ok. But with 130 days left they haven't even released surrogates to blanket the nation. People think it's Biden that destroyed Roe!...and THIS gem 💎.....half of poll respondents think its the darned FASCIST Donny that can better protect Democracy! 😬. That only happens if the good guys are incompetent.
I agree. Dems always clutch their collective pearls and wring our hands. Take a deep breath and let's hit this out of the ballpark together. After all, Obama tanked a debate as well and they told him to get out too.
Totally disagree. I think. Yes, it's time to pass the torch, but this is not' the" time , The time to pass the torch is after the election has been won by Biden. You don't see Trump's followers, abandoning him Or anyone calling for this convicts removal from runnings as president, but oh no, you see the democrats doing it to Biden! Shame!!!The democrats with one bad debate, incredulously are willing to abandon this man. Unbelievable!. The debate wasn't really all that bad. If you really look at the substance and not just the age and the fact that he did have a raspy voice from a cold. We are so bent on having our national Academy Award. type winners that we are losing site of what's important... And what is important is defeating trump period this is not the time to jump ship on Joe Biden!He deserves our support bot our whinin!I encourage you all to listen to Robert Hubbell's newsletter. Makes a lot of sense on how we react to this debate. And how we should react from this point forward!
He said, “we beat Medicare”. Ya, it was all that bad and then some. If the case against Trump is that he is a liar, then you can’t run against him by lying to us about Biden’s fitness to serve another four and a half years. I’m tired of being told I didn’t see what I just saw…by both candidates.
Greg, I think you have made a very important point. We must not adopt the MAGA strategy of denying obvious truths.
Cold, laryngitis, and sore throat excuses do not explain Biden's incoherence, lack of focus, and inability to make the obvious sharp retorts to Trump's lies.
Every indicator was of an 81 year old man incapable of debating effectively.
Some 81 year olds remain at or near peak performance, but they are in the minority and Biden is not one of them. I greatly admire him for what he has accomplished. I also think he will tarnish his reputation with a lust for power if he does not do what is necessary to stop a fascist dictatorship in America, step down in favor of a better Democratic candidate.
If he and Kamala do the right thing, Democrats could begin the process of nominating new candidates sooner rather than later.
We who admire Biden cannot allow ourselves to be blinded to reality. Admiration and wishful thinking will not win this election. Biden’s polling numbers were bad before this debate, they will be worse now. We must defeat Trump, everything else is secondary. Sometimes a limb must be amputated to save a life. It’s always a terrible, but, necessary choice. There is no time to panic, this is the time for resolve.
Thanks Heather for telling me about Robert Hubbell's substack. I just read what he wrote today and then I donated to Biden's campaign. It is the least we can do to put our money where our mouths are. It will be good for them to be able to sight how many people donated and are still supporting Biden. If the republicans can ignore a convicted felon and rapist, then surely we can ignore a bad night for Joe, who was not feeling well and suffering from Jetlag. I travel internationally twice a year, and I know how exhausting that can be on the mind and body. I for one am cutting him some slack.
That is great thanks Heather. I read that a lot of people have also donated after the debate. I am sure that he will be fine, he has a lot of the bright staff in good positions.
What, because of one debate? Hillary wiped the floor with Trump. It didn't matter! People have short memories. We can survive this. Biden can't just hand over the nomination as though he were a king. We. Can. Survive. This.
Last night was not about a first debate. Casual watchers (not people here) saw an old man struggle to say things in a coherent way, for 90 minutes. Sharp people do not stare at space, rarely blinking, with their mouth open. Steve’s opinion is correct.
I saw a man incredulous at the torrent of lies and hate spewing out of Trump’s mouth. I was stunned by Trump’s insanity and I was sitting in the comfort of my own bedroom.
Anchors on tv are saying Jake Tapper and Dana Bash couldn’t fact check him because it would have turned the whole debate into one long fact check, yet they fault Biden for not fact checking more of Trump’s lies when that would have turned the debate into a 90-minute fact check too.
Biden was not at the top of his form, but I think expectations now expressed as criticism are unrealistic. And this unrealistic drubbing of Biden is going to cause Trump to win! So stop.
While I believe Joe Biden’s administration can successfully guide the nation for 4 more years, I no longer believe he can win. The courts won’t save us and Biden’s performance on stage just undercut his amazing accomplishments.
The only thing that matters now is preventing Trump from winning. I’m not confident the Democratic Party can actually manage unity behind a new candidate, however. Scary times.
Bullshit. People here will support Biden or whoever is at the top of the ticket. TFG is that much of a threat. Voter suppression, whether by insane new laws or threats, will keep some people away. A few thousand here and there in 5 or 6 states is all it takes. And Biden's ability and performance has been questioned for over a year, not just last night. That was the proverbial icing on the cake. He can't win because he didn't win one single fucking vote last night, not because people are ignoring reality and "caving" as you so inaccurately describe it. No one being honest about what we all saw and who has yet to decide watched that last night will be encouraged or excited to vote for Biden. No one. He didn't lose the already decided supporters. He just didn't gain any new ones - the ones he needs to win. MAGA does not give a single bit about TFG, his lies, his crimes, his convictions, his pending cases, his ineptitude. The bar is different. Unfair as that might be, it just is and has been since TFG descended the escalator in 2015.
Catherine is right! Trump MUST be defeated or we get the concentration camp chronicles....Project 2025. Q: Why can't the Democrat machine formulate proposals like this???? Our leaders lack vision, vigor and tenacity. What we get is elderly Dick Durbin's 'Nor gonna happen'. That's the story of the Democratic party....and why we face the catastrophe at hand. We need youth, piss and vinegar
Biden has been a very good president. On a number of things he has exceeded expectations. However, his age and debility have caught up with him. Sorry to say, Steve, but you are absolutely correct. It is time to pass the torch and do what LBJ did!
A LBJ gave us Richard Nixon, the current emergence of the Russian Fascist Supreme Court and Republican Party. Then, I believe, Richard Nixon, some how some way, set up Robert Kennedy's assassination.
I'm feeling it's like an athlete retiring while their legacy is intact. I love Biden but I know too many people who have left Trump but already couldn't feel making the leap to Biden.
At the same time, I just came from a Zoom meeting where focus groups from 20somethings and also Latinos apparently stated they were all over Trump's lies and rejected them. I think we need to take a beat to read the whole room. Next week is the holiday, people will start thinking after this in their off time and the result needs to coalesce.
Timing is everything. How do you get on the ballots? That would trigger court cases - maybe up to a hostile Supreme Court that just gave Trump a J6 out. Our system can handle this. Biden performed wonderfully the following day at a campaign stop. Eyes on the prize.
Yes HCR wrote an inspiring essay. And were elections won on rational analysis, Biden would win. But, they’re not, especially in this polarized atmosphere. His campaign is in trouble, now more than ever.
I hate to say it, but we didn't read a transcript last night, we watched a debate with Biden facing off an inveterate liar. Trump wasn't as good as JFK, but Biden was arguably as bad as Nixon, who failed to recover from that debate.
Accepting the reality so many of us hoped was not the case is not "panicked". It's a holy shit moment and some people better embrace the very real and likely possibility that TFG wins head to head vs. Biden. And the impact up and down the ballot will be devastating.
I am amazed and disheartened that so many are panicking so soon after one bad day. I’m waiting a few days to see how Biden handles this before I ask him to throw in the towel. If his debate performance becomes the norm, then he’s gone and then who will take his place???
Again, it's not panicked to acknowledge what we saw and has been the fear for well over a year. So, it's not "one bad day" but a culmination of what we've hoped was not the reality, but sadly was. Your wait and see approach, limited to a few days, is certainly reasonable. Who takes his place is not up to us, so I'll offer no opinion on that. That said, Biden can't win IMO, so at least someone else gives our country and democracy a fighting chance.
Judy, I liked and respected RBG. My problem with her was her decision not to retire and to remain a sitting judge until she died. The timing was bad and allowed Mitch McConnell to play games and hold the seat open til the new president was elected, which, unfortunately, our worst president ever. Would it have been better if RBG had retired in a timely manner and allowed Obama a clear shot at nominating a liberal justice? Possibly…
You take any disagreement about RBG and accuse me of not respecting Judge Ginsburg. I did respect her and that’s why I was disappointed in her not retiring
That's a good question, others may well know more than I do, but my impression from watching in the past (not that recently) is that a majority are well connected, "inside baseball" types, with the rest college/grad students, young up-and-comers in the party, all ages of volunteers..... The gamut of people committed enough to set aside time to be there and represent. I'm sure it's unpredictable to a degree, but it's ALL unpredictable now.
That leaves the public out. Democrats voted for Biden not anyone else. The backdoor delegates would pick a candidate? It would be a bloody nightmare and I would want my donations back. There is no time for this nonsense
I'm rethinking that a bit myself, thanks for weighing in on that. I've since heard that was a big issue for Humphrey picking up after LBJ dropped out, perhaps a decisive factor in his loss to Nixon (& we know how that turned out).
I wouldn't reverse any of them. I admired her tremendously! And of course I would LOVE it if a republican appointed male supreme court justice would quit for the love of our country. Please don't accuse me of racism or ageism. I'm still working at 75 and my company takes DEI very seriously.
Agree wholeheartedly. Biden needs to put our country before his desire and ego for a second term. I respect him and truly appreciate all that he has done, but it is time for the democrats to support a younger and aggressive candidate who can lead us out of this hell hole and put trump in his place.
Joe Biden did not want to run for President the first time, let alone the second time at this time in his life.There was no body else who was stepping up to the task to beat trump! We owe him our gratitude our vote. And a graceful exit after that!
This is absolutely revisionist. No, he didn't want to run in 2016 due to his son, Beau's death. He would have been a clear winner and much better candidate than Hillary. He did want to run in 2020 and threw his name in the ring. He said he would be a one term transition away from TFG, but when TFG announced he was running again, he decided he's the only democrat who can beat TFG. The DNC was handcuffed by Biden. They could not and would not support a serious primary because historically when that has happened to an incumbent, the incumbent is vilified and humiliated by his own party, so they most often if not always, lose in the general election. Biden brought this on. Bad timing in 2016 and arrogance in 2024. He'll get my vote, but it won't fucking matter.
Who? A bloody war wd ensue. Democrats wd lose down ballot races bc we wd look like we are unable to govern our own party. The majority of voters are not lock step Democrats
Far be it from me to lavish praise upon myself. I like to think that I am possessed of enough self awareness and humility to recognize my many fallibility’sWhy . BUT.
I asked this question some time ago and it now appears to be mandatory to ask again. What country are you living in?
The red warning signs have been flashing for months. Why is there any thinking citizen of this republic who, before last night, was complacently unconcerned about the destiny of our nation? To have possessed such stupidity and ignorance is beyond comprehension. We are in an existential crisis comparable only to the CIVIL WAR in our history.
There are only a few months to move heaven and earth to prevent this catastrophe of epic magnitude.
Biden must be told in no uncertain terms that his candidacy is the pathway to unmitigated disaster.
Biden has forced this position upon the democratic party and the nation. Replacing him now will be awful and a challenge to overcome the lead that TFG has - and that will grow after last night's horror show and debacle. Not replacing him is a guarantee that TFG wins. I'd rather at least have a fighter's chance. This decision is out of our hands and in fact, 100% up to Biden, both Joe and Jill. I'll support him if he stays, because I am genuinely concerned for the future of democracy is TFG wins, but seriously, WTF??!!
Don’t laugh… what do you think of a split ticket with Liz Cheney at the top and Josh Shapiro as VP? The good news is that the Democratic Party is suddenly alive again, and very engaged. We need to run a president who’s going to grab the imagination of Democrats, and scare the shit out of Republicans.
I am a fan of Liz Cheney but only for her response to MAGA..she does not support women's health choices (right to abortion, birthday control etc) and many other values I do NOT support.
So no I could.not support her...it would be undemocratic to me.
I listened to the debate on MSNBC. Alex Wagner’s interview Governor Gavin Newsom who IMHO had the best take of the night. You don’t abandon the President after one disappointing performance. Joe has performed wonderfully for America and its people in many different ways other than on a debate stage. I hate using sports as an example but… when your favorite team loses, do you throw away their jerseys you wear? Of course not. This is not about Biden v tRump, it’s about freedom and democracy v authoritarianism and suppression. I still have Joe’s back because I know he has mine - and yours!
We cannot "unsee" what we saw last night. We cannot "unknow" the outcome in November if changes aren't made. Joe Biden will be older and even more frail in November. He cannot win. If we march toward this outcome with our eyes wide open, then that is on us. There is no shame in aging, or in becoming elderly. Its unthinkable to continue living in denial and having the whole world suffer as a result. Let's figure out how to proceed toward a November victory. We can do this!
Fire the people who prepped Biden for this debate. No video coaching? No zingy one-line rejoinders? No Schmidtian gut-punches to take the bully down from the get-go?
We wouldn’t be having this discussion today if Biden came out prepared to rise to the occasion.
Totally agree. I don’t know if better preparation would have changed the outcome, but he was clearly exhausted . His team should not have locked him up for days on end with prep sessions and mock debates. He should have been playing golf and getting rest. He knows what his administration has done. They should have let Joe be Joe. Instead they pummeled facts and figures into his head, which is not how you win a debate against Trump.
Well expressed Linda....the Democratic advisors/strategists for decades do the same thing over & over & over with their statistics....no one cares. Trump just arrived with his strategy to regurgitate his lies in rapid-fire fashion (firehose of lies is Russian disinformation technique) & he knew they wouldn't be refuted if Biden didn't do it. And he was correct. Why did D outsmart Bidens advisors? It's disturbing
Dude, "prepared" vs. "capable". You're blaming, without evidence, that this is wholly on those who prepared him rather than at least acknowledging even the remotest possibility that he was perfectly prepared, yet incapable of rising to the occasion. That's denying reality of what we all saw.
Dude? That’s perhaps what *you* saw, and I agree there is blame to go around, but it appears you are taking the same “without evidence” approach on the ‘capable’ side.
Biden is certainly capable of landing points and punches, as evidenced by other appearances, such as today’s North Carolina speech. Why he fell so flat during the debate…? No Teleprompter? Head cold? Over-preparation? Bad advisors? Ran out of Geritol?
I think that the die is cast and no one can bring the experience and intelligence to this cause of freedom than Joe Biden. Joe Biden is far more vigorous than FDR was in 1940 or 1944. I think the Biden Team over prepared Joe and allowed him to do too much draining travel and meeting with world leaders. The Biden team really fucked up.
More vigorous or not than FDR doesn't mean a damn thing in the current media echo chambers. I posted this elsewhere, but in 1946, a year after FDR passed away, there were 8000 televisions in the US. 8000. Now everyone with a phone will see what we all saw last night. And anything of substance, which Biden clearly won on, will be cheap faked away to make it look even worse than it actually was. And it was actually fucking awful.
Hopefully the Democratic Party has a Plan B. IF not, the country is toast. Goodbye America. It's been nice knowing ya. Bring in Gavin Newsom, or an equivalent. Use whatever procedures or process are available to let Biden step aside with dignity. I fear Biden is ill-equipped to carry us forward for another four years. DO the Dems have a Plan B? Have they even considered there might be a necessity for a Plan B? God, I hope so!
This is too far, Steve.
I’m not giving up.
I’m with Newsome and what he said afterward in response to all the gloom and doom.
For 50 years this man has been a dedicated patriot. He had our back and now we need to have his. There is more to him, his cabinet, the healing they have accomplished and their plans to continue. No one said this was going to be easy, so it’s time to buck up and march forward.
Meanwhile, sorry to say, but I’m putting your negativity away for awhile.
I am with you. I will not listen to this bullshit.
Totally agree with Newsom and with your views. I think it's awesome to see the positivity, and not just the doom and gloom. It kind of shows where our head's at !
You do realize Newsom is a Biden Surrogate.
So?
I question what he really thinks. It is protocol to have the President run unless he chooses not to. Nobody had the kahunas to ask Biden not to.
Cojones
Is that like The Big Kahuna?
From what I remember….yes.
From what I remember….yes.
I agree with you. Mr. Biden had a bad night. This election is just gearing up. Let's go into overdrive and mow those magas over by voting Blue top to bottom. Don't give up, VOTE for Democracy.
Should we judge the whole of the man by an hour and a half against a loud, lying, ignorant, hateful idiot who is also a convicted felon- 34 times - by moderators who wouldn’t stop him and make him comply to the rules? I don’t think so.
Unfortunately it has been more than one night
I disagree. There’s no way Biden can win after last night. It wasn’t even close. I wish it were different, but it’s not. He appeared weak, confused, mumbling and disoriented. He wasn’t even looking in the right direction at times. Come on. Put country above party. Get someone else in there. Please. Otherwise Trump wins. Let’s get real.
I don't hear you saying that Donald Trump lied every time he opened his mouth - OR - Come on - Put country above party Republicans. Get someone else to represent the Republican Party.
P Audrey - absolutely agree with what you said. I assumed it goes without saying that the same applies to Trump - actually 100x because he’s literally a threat to our democracy and constitution. If fact I have a “country before party” sign in my front yard, specifically for that reason - republicans are putting their party and their desire for power above the well-being of our democracy. Even more reason why democrats need someone who can defeat Trump. I don’t think that’s Biden anymore.
Separate from who can beat Trump, the question becomes - is Biden even mentally fit to be president now? Can you imagine him responding in a coherent manner to an urgent presidential emergency? I can’t. It would be all the people around him making those critical decisions, not him. He’s become mentally feeble, which is evident when he’s not reading from a teleprompter. So that’s a second reason why we need someone else besides Biden.
I think he’s been a fine president. And it’s time to pass the torch.
Change horses in mid-stream? How do you get on all the ballots? Sounds like court cases galore to me - probably up to our corrupt Supreme Court. Stay calm and carry on. Wishful thinking won't get us out of this. Working to get out the common sense voters will.
Can we all agree that it would not be a bad idea to have several interviews with Biden in order to determine what may be going on with him? Sure, we heard him speak afterwards...but there were tele-prompters in front of him, and that always makes a difference for anyone. But in the real Race, there probably will not be! What then?
WE HAVE TO START TO ASK HIM QUESTIONS RELATING TO WHAT HAPPENED AND SEE IF WE CAN DETERMINE WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON WITH HIM, other than a cold, especially if he is not willing to forfeit Presidency.
Yes..thanks for repeated what Newsome had to say re: continuing support to Biden..that you don't give him up because of what occurred...that you continue to support him......The Problem is at this moment, is realistically, Our President appeared to have declined since the last major speech he gave to the country which was superior, and Only a few months ago. What happened to him last night? He did not look well at all.
The only person that could replace him is "NEWSOME". HE IS STRONG, ARTICULATE, KNOWS THE ISSUES, CAN FIGHT BACK OVER AND ABOVE THE CRAZY OTHER, AND WOULD WIN"......but he is the only one to take this chance with...NO one else is as capable and would know how to fight as he does!
Eva; we need to allow him to have a bad day like every one does from time to time. All of us would prefer that JB was younger but that isn’t the case. We need to consider the ramifications of him dropping four months from the election. That would be a very dangerous path. Trump is an immoral criminal!
I believe if Biden became incapacitated or died in his second term the country would still be okay. For perspective, FDR and JFK died in office and the US carried on without them.
We all need a week or so to regain our footing and continue the fight!
Yes, and Biden is on a powerful roll today: extremely sharp, tough, and on point!
But Lisa....are 40 million people watching?? Many don't even know he's got a campaign event. But otherwise I agree with you
Yes, I agree. But it is normal for everyone to carry on after anyone passes. We all need someone like him and would prefer JB, but again, what we all say last night was a complete opposite to his last determined strength of a speech where the repubs could not tolerate his success & claimed he was on drugs. Goodness, what do we do with Reality when it arrives. All of us are in the same boat! We can't afford to Sink Now! We exist now in the moment with an urgency, to think fast...And the reality of it is that we have to confront it, or die.
Yes, give it a few days....but if Biden continues to think he did well, then this should cue us all into Urging him to let go, FOR THE SAKE OF OUR AMERICA!
Disagree about Newsom. First, he is too liberal. Second, he is not popular here in California. He would be skewered by the Republicans.
Can we afford disagreement at this moment in time. Too Liberal? Once, this was a beautiful word. Today, it is hated? There are many people who would respond opposite to his not being popular in California. He stands hard against the Repubs, and has repeatedly.... speaks against what they are attempting to do to the U.S. in terms of our liberties. He represents a strength that is not presented in anyone in gov. Speaks HARD, with an internalized knowledge against those that wish to decrease the strength of this country.
Don't get me wrong. I like Newsom, especially his energy -- so unlike most timid Democrats who are constantly playing defense. I just don't see those in the middle or center-right voting for him. Andy Beshear, the twice-elected Democratic governor of Kentucky (a ruby-red state) would be my choice.
If the polls go down I hope Newsom jumps in
Biden did great at his campaign stop the next day. Big picture.
Steve is a good man, but I always have to remember he is a former Republican. Some things are hard to let go of, I'm sure. He has great insight and I respect his opinion on all political matters and he may be right, but we all need to step back and wait a to see what the next few days tell us.
Marian,
With all due respect, my views about Biden have nothing to do with the fact that I am a former Republican.
Steve
No disrespect, Steve. Just my 83 years of life's observations.
Actually your views on this are about as Democratic as it gets. The transformation is complete! Welcome!
Yes, Steve immediately started "I told you so". He seems to have never been pro-Biden.
I'm wondering if Biden was on cold medicine last night. Some of that can be problematic. Biden seemed to be way over-prepped and not himself. The real Biden is shown above in what May posted. It was a terrible debate. He should not be judged by that and thrown out!
You must be right Lisa believing he was on cold meds. Cause yesterday was like a transformation to his usual feistiness. Your observation begs Q...what the hell were his advisors thinking?? That makes the situation worse. Dem advisors are the worst.
Oh come on! Steve has done more for the Democrats than they do for their short sighted selves!
Agree with possible medication interference, a lot of these drugs can completely
alter ones normal self- OLDER PEOPLE - ESPECIALLY- can be affected with unusual
over-reactions to DRUGS! Even as a younger person, doctors over- prescribed /
mis- prescribed drugs that caused me mental paralysis!!!
I understand Steve's alarm. If 50 MILLION people hadn't watched this the damage could be fixed. Impressions matter and since the Democrats have a congenital inability to communicate effectively we have a problem. People finding themselves in life/death situations MUST try to calm & think clearly. Dems DO have a suicidal tendency to allow the diminished elderly to keep their positions to the detriment of vital goals....take Diane Feinstein. America is under massive assault from Putin, Netanyahu, & domestically from the fascist right wing. Leaders were needed that could think decisively, quickly with power/strength w/o compromise---for God's sakes your Democracy is at stake. We face brutal authoritarianism..not Bob Doles kindly republicanism. Bidens strategists/advisors have failed...will they take responsibility when we face the end. No...they will be fine $$$. WE will suffer horrifically just as the regular German folk suffered for 12 years. I wouldn't panic but for Christ's sake, 20% think it's Bidens fault Roe fell. Many still think crime is up, inflation up, & a portion think we are in a recession! Democrats inability to communicate truth will kill us all. It doesn't help that Dems allowed Reagan to destroy Fairness Doctrine & as a result the entire media ecosystem is a fascist cesspool of lies that Dems are drowning in. What are they going to do about it? 1990 solutions won't do.
Listen to last night w/ Lawrence O'Donnell- he said, not that many undecided voters
watched! It was great show, very calming- less reasons to panic!
I understand.
So. Beyond hand wringing, what is your solution? Give up?
We can’t. I’m not.
I’m a senior without a millionaire’s portfolio.
A senior in a blue state.
A senior who has seen many elections that seemed in peril.
I am giving every spare penny I can for the fight in crucial states and sending messages to Biden campaigns in all of them, as well as carefully sharing my social media messaging.
We must look for positive messaging among the influentials, like O’Donnell’s take on the debate, Newsom’s superb, charismatic messaging skills and spread it as best we can, and forward truthful memes about Trump’s lies and 2025 threat.
The Party MUST send out articulate, charismatic surrogates to hammer the admin’s successes in loud,
LOCAL kitchen table examples.
We all must get on board this train. This is no time to wimp out.
❤️
Kristine, I love this comment!
I think everyone needs to calm down from last night’s disappointment before make decisions on what to do.
Well, Biden is not backing down. Watch what he is saying. https://youtu.be/r572mMJbjAo?si=Qno2yrAZqT600tMS
Same! https://youtu.be/uPNQ5_a8tw4?si=i-u63PyeYNUmPhlW
Trump’s stock was up 8% post debate but today it is way down again, his ballon just collapsed. Biden again here. https://youtu.be/IEYONiZWjJc?si=DCq4_pz2lx1_oIvG. I don’t think that Biden continues because of his promise to Bo. I think it is the pack he made with the American people. For him to walk away he has to know and believe someone who can beat Donal Trump. Even Nikki Haley botched it. You have to give him the name of who can beat Trump in order for him to walk away now. It definitely was a terrible debate as were Biden’s past debates, including the democratic primary in 2020. No miracle to our pre debate prayers for sure. In spite of all that, last night still was a good sleeping night because Biden was still in charge. He was no Hilary Clinton in debating Trump. But he won and Hilary lost the election.
That is the REAL JOE Biden in the video you posted! Please keep posting this -thanks.
Steve, please watch the videos May posted above. No teleprompter, just BIDEN!!!
He appeared in that store completely different than in his debate. He looked better physically, and spoke better...you could actually hear him as opposed to how you could not make-out what he was saying.... So what is this.? How did this change occur? If he holds on to the idea that he did well and does not see how he appeared, then maybe he needs to be confronted with the fact that there appears to have been some decline in him. To hang on to a possible repeat of yesterday will cast our country into a fascist existence. We cannot wait long for a decision presently. If he walked onto the stage in Nov. this way, we will lose our way of life, our freedoms.
I believe Joe Biden deserves the benefit of the doubt. We owe it to him. He has a bad night and now the vultures are circling. BS
Maybe he was on cold medicine? Some of that stuff with throw a person way off.
Biden was in front of 50 million people not a few rally goers. It’s not just the debate. His son is baggage even if he wasn’t involved.
To be contrarian....hes reading from a teleprompter. The debate was a test to think on ones feet & quickly formulate responses to lies & state truths. 50 freekin million saw this debacle & I fear the damage is like a destroyer being hit by a torpedo. If I was confident in Democrats ability to communicate and convince Americans of truth its be ok. But with 130 days left they haven't even released surrogates to blanket the nation. People think it's Biden that destroyed Roe!...and THIS gem 💎.....half of poll respondents think its the darned FASCIST Donny that can better protect Democracy! 😬. That only happens if the good guys are incompetent.
I agree. Dems always clutch their collective pearls and wring our hands. Take a deep breath and let's hit this out of the ballpark together. After all, Obama tanked a debate as well and they told him to get out too.
*we
Totally disagree. I think. Yes, it's time to pass the torch, but this is not' the" time , The time to pass the torch is after the election has been won by Biden. You don't see Trump's followers, abandoning him Or anyone calling for this convicts removal from runnings as president, but oh no, you see the democrats doing it to Biden! Shame!!!The democrats with one bad debate, incredulously are willing to abandon this man. Unbelievable!. The debate wasn't really all that bad. If you really look at the substance and not just the age and the fact that he did have a raspy voice from a cold. We are so bent on having our national Academy Award. type winners that we are losing site of what's important... And what is important is defeating trump period this is not the time to jump ship on Joe Biden!He deserves our support bot our whinin!I encourage you all to listen to Robert Hubbell's newsletter. Makes a lot of sense on how we react to this debate. And how we should react from this point forward!
He said, “we beat Medicare”. Ya, it was all that bad and then some. If the case against Trump is that he is a liar, then you can’t run against him by lying to us about Biden’s fitness to serve another four and a half years. I’m tired of being told I didn’t see what I just saw…by both candidates.
Greg, I think you have made a very important point. We must not adopt the MAGA strategy of denying obvious truths.
Cold, laryngitis, and sore throat excuses do not explain Biden's incoherence, lack of focus, and inability to make the obvious sharp retorts to Trump's lies.
Every indicator was of an 81 year old man incapable of debating effectively.
Some 81 year olds remain at or near peak performance, but they are in the minority and Biden is not one of them. I greatly admire him for what he has accomplished. I also think he will tarnish his reputation with a lust for power if he does not do what is necessary to stop a fascist dictatorship in America, step down in favor of a better Democratic candidate.
If he and Kamala do the right thing, Democrats could begin the process of nominating new candidates sooner rather than later.
You sum up my thoughts exactly.
I'm not advocating for Bernie....but for an 80 year old he can really state his case....hes good.
Exactly
We who admire Biden cannot allow ourselves to be blinded to reality. Admiration and wishful thinking will not win this election. Biden’s polling numbers were bad before this debate, they will be worse now. We must defeat Trump, everything else is secondary. Sometimes a limb must be amputated to save a life. It’s always a terrible, but, necessary choice. There is no time to panic, this is the time for resolve.
Thanks Heather for telling me about Robert Hubbell's substack. I just read what he wrote today and then I donated to Biden's campaign. It is the least we can do to put our money where our mouths are. It will be good for them to be able to sight how many people donated and are still supporting Biden. If the republicans can ignore a convicted felon and rapist, then surely we can ignore a bad night for Joe, who was not feeling well and suffering from Jetlag. I travel internationally twice a year, and I know how exhausting that can be on the mind and body. I for one am cutting him some slack.
It prompted me to donate again too!!!
That is great thanks Heather. I read that a lot of people have also donated after the debate. I am sure that he will be fine, he has a lot of the bright staff in good positions.
What, because of one debate? Hillary wiped the floor with Trump. It didn't matter! People have short memories. We can survive this. Biden can't just hand over the nomination as though he were a king. We. Can. Survive. This.
Last night was not about a first debate. Casual watchers (not people here) saw an old man struggle to say things in a coherent way, for 90 minutes. Sharp people do not stare at space, rarely blinking, with their mouth open. Steve’s opinion is correct.
I saw a man incredulous at the torrent of lies and hate spewing out of Trump’s mouth. I was stunned by Trump’s insanity and I was sitting in the comfort of my own bedroom.
Anchors on tv are saying Jake Tapper and Dana Bash couldn’t fact check him because it would have turned the whole debate into one long fact check, yet they fault Biden for not fact checking more of Trump’s lies when that would have turned the debate into a 90-minute fact check too.
Biden was not at the top of his form, but I think expectations now expressed as criticism are unrealistic. And this unrealistic drubbing of Biden is going to cause Trump to win! So stop.
Hopefully a good portion of these 'casual watchers' WONT vote....serious people aren't casual about this.
There needs to be a Plan B or we get Project 2025.
The Supreme Court is giving us Project 2025.
Scary but I feel you're right
While I believe Joe Biden’s administration can successfully guide the nation for 4 more years, I no longer believe he can win. The courts won’t save us and Biden’s performance on stage just undercut his amazing accomplishments.
The only thing that matters now is preventing Trump from winning. I’m not confident the Democratic Party can actually manage unity behind a new candidate, however. Scary times.
He can’t win because you all are caving. Goood thing Biden never caved in his life.
Bullshit. People here will support Biden or whoever is at the top of the ticket. TFG is that much of a threat. Voter suppression, whether by insane new laws or threats, will keep some people away. A few thousand here and there in 5 or 6 states is all it takes. And Biden's ability and performance has been questioned for over a year, not just last night. That was the proverbial icing on the cake. He can't win because he didn't win one single fucking vote last night, not because people are ignoring reality and "caving" as you so inaccurately describe it. No one being honest about what we all saw and who has yet to decide watched that last night will be encouraged or excited to vote for Biden. No one. He didn't lose the already decided supporters. He just didn't gain any new ones - the ones he needs to win. MAGA does not give a single bit about TFG, his lies, his crimes, his convictions, his pending cases, his ineptitude. The bar is different. Unfair as that might be, it just is and has been since TFG descended the escalator in 2015.
Yeah well sure as hell isn’t standing up.
Catherine is right! Trump MUST be defeated or we get the concentration camp chronicles....Project 2025. Q: Why can't the Democrat machine formulate proposals like this???? Our leaders lack vision, vigor and tenacity. What we get is elderly Dick Durbin's 'Nor gonna happen'. That's the story of the Democratic party....and why we face the catastrophe at hand. We need youth, piss and vinegar
Biden has been a very good president. On a number of things he has exceeded expectations. However, his age and debility have caught up with him. Sorry to say, Steve, but you are absolutely correct. It is time to pass the torch and do what LBJ did!
A LBJ gave us Richard Nixon, the current emergence of the Russian Fascist Supreme Court and Republican Party. Then, I believe, Richard Nixon, some how some way, set up Robert Kennedy's assassination.
You may be right.
I'm feeling it's like an athlete retiring while their legacy is intact. I love Biden but I know too many people who have left Trump but already couldn't feel making the leap to Biden.
At the same time, I just came from a Zoom meeting where focus groups from 20somethings and also Latinos apparently stated they were all over Trump's lies and rejected them. I think we need to take a beat to read the whole room. Next week is the holiday, people will start thinking after this in their off time and the result needs to coalesce.
Timing is everything. How do you get on the ballots? That would trigger court cases - maybe up to a hostile Supreme Court that just gave Trump a J6 out. Our system can handle this. Biden performed wonderfully the following day at a campaign stop. Eyes on the prize.
Agreed!!!
Before we all jump on the bandwagon, everyone should reach Heather Cox Richardson’s essay this morning.
Yes HCR wrote an inspiring essay. And were elections won on rational analysis, Biden would win. But, they’re not, especially in this polarized atmosphere. His campaign is in trouble, now more than ever.
I hate to say it, but we didn't read a transcript last night, we watched a debate with Biden facing off an inveterate liar. Trump wasn't as good as JFK, but Biden was arguably as bad as Nixon, who failed to recover from that debate.
Not only inspiring, but entirely rational.
Steve, you sound panicked, not your usual reasoned and rational self. Please do read Heather.
Accepting the reality so many of us hoped was not the case is not "panicked". It's a holy shit moment and some people better embrace the very real and likely possibility that TFG wins head to head vs. Biden. And the impact up and down the ballot will be devastating.
I am amazed and disheartened that so many are panicking so soon after one bad day. I’m waiting a few days to see how Biden handles this before I ask him to throw in the towel. If his debate performance becomes the norm, then he’s gone and then who will take his place???
Again, it's not panicked to acknowledge what we saw and has been the fear for well over a year. So, it's not "one bad day" but a culmination of what we've hoped was not the reality, but sadly was. Your wait and see approach, limited to a few days, is certainly reasonable. Who takes his place is not up to us, so I'll offer no opinion on that. That said, Biden can't win IMO, so at least someone else gives our country and democracy a fighting chance.
Biden is speaking powerfully today. May Ng. posted videos today, see above.
Dorothy, all great questions. Let’s not be impulsive.
I don’t want to see another Ruth Bader Ginsburg disaster. The time to quit is now. She should have. He must.
Kathleen, you just said the three magic words, “Ruth Bader Ginsburg” She’s been lurking, uncomfortably, in the back of my mind since Dobbs.
I like Biden, and I’d hate to see his reputation tarnished by his going down to a terrible defeat to a madman.
WHY PICK RBG??? HOW ABOUT ALL THE MALE JUSTICES WHO'VE STAYED ON
TILL DEATH??? WHICH OF RBG's VOTES would you Reverse??? RBG, DID MORE
TO HELP US THAN MOST JUSTICES + NOW you're blaming her??? How about
blaming Mitch McConnell??? Are you going to blame RBG f/ the war in GAZA TOO???
AGEISM/ SEXISM/ RACISM - ALL THE SAME!!!!!
Judy, I liked and respected RBG. My problem with her was her decision not to retire and to remain a sitting judge until she died. The timing was bad and allowed Mitch McConnell to play games and hold the seat open til the new president was elected, which, unfortunately, our worst president ever. Would it have been better if RBG had retired in a timely manner and allowed Obama a clear shot at nominating a liberal justice? Possibly…
You take any disagreement about RBG and accuse me of not respecting Judge Ginsburg. I did respect her and that’s why I was disappointed in her not retiring
gammyjill,
I never said you did not respect RBG. I don't know you. I DON'T KNOW what
you feel about RBG. OBAMA COULD NOT EVEN GET MERRITT GARLAND
INTO AN EMPTY SEAT! RBG WAS HOPING HILLARY WOULD WIN ! SHE-
RBG- IS NOT RESPONSIBLE F/ MANY OTHER FACTORS - INCLUDING
HER AGE BEING THOUGHT OF - NOT AS AN ASSET- OR IRRELEVANT-
BUT AS A FLAW!
How then does that work for those who voted in primaries? The Dems will be in greater disarray than we usually appear.
Open the convention. We dealt with COVID, we can deal with this.
But, Susan, do you have any sense of who the delegates are? I don't, even in my own state, and I worry who might be nominated in such a scenario.
That's a good question, others may well know more than I do, but my impression from watching in the past (not that recently) is that a majority are well connected, "inside baseball" types, with the rest college/grad students, young up-and-comers in the party, all ages of volunteers..... The gamut of people committed enough to set aside time to be there and represent. I'm sure it's unpredictable to a degree, but it's ALL unpredictable now.
That leaves the public out. Democrats voted for Biden not anyone else. The backdoor delegates would pick a candidate? It would be a bloody nightmare and I would want my donations back. There is no time for this nonsense
I'm rethinking that a bit myself, thanks for weighing in on that. I've since heard that was a big issue for Humphrey picking up after LBJ dropped out, perhaps a decisive factor in his loss to Nixon (& we know how that turned out).
Justice Sotomayor must resign to allow Biden to get a young brilliant black woman like Justice Jackson.
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG W/ JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR! The color of someone's skin
does not make them brilliant! how do you like Justice Clarence Thomas's brilliance?
WHY PICK A FEMALE JUSTICE TO RETIRE EARLY?? HOW ABOUT PICKING ONE OF
THE OLDER MEN??
WHICH OF RBG's VOTES WOULD YOU REVERSE, KATHLEEN??? YOU THINK RBG WAS A
DISASTER BECAUSE OF HER AGE??? HER MIND WAS ACUTE TILL THE END. AGEISM/
SEXISM/ RACISM- ALL THE SAME!!!
Which of RBG's votes would you reverse?
I wouldn't reverse any of them. I admired her tremendously! And of course I would LOVE it if a republican appointed male supreme court justice would quit for the love of our country. Please don't accuse me of racism or ageism. I'm still working at 75 and my company takes DEI very seriously.
Agree wholeheartedly. Biden needs to put our country before his desire and ego for a second term. I respect him and truly appreciate all that he has done, but it is time for the democrats to support a younger and aggressive candidate who can lead us out of this hell hole and put trump in his place.
Joe Biden did not want to run for President the first time, let alone the second time at this time in his life.There was no body else who was stepping up to the task to beat trump! We owe him our gratitude our vote. And a graceful exit after that!
This is absolutely revisionist. No, he didn't want to run in 2016 due to his son, Beau's death. He would have been a clear winner and much better candidate than Hillary. He did want to run in 2020 and threw his name in the ring. He said he would be a one term transition away from TFG, but when TFG announced he was running again, he decided he's the only democrat who can beat TFG. The DNC was handcuffed by Biden. They could not and would not support a serious primary because historically when that has happened to an incumbent, the incumbent is vilified and humiliated by his own party, so they most often if not always, lose in the general election. Biden brought this on. Bad timing in 2016 and arrogance in 2024. He'll get my vote, but it won't fucking matter.
Amen!!!
Who? A bloody war wd ensue. Democrats wd lose down ballot races bc we wd look like we are unable to govern our own party. The majority of voters are not lock step Democrats
Far be it from me to lavish praise upon myself. I like to think that I am possessed of enough self awareness and humility to recognize my many fallibility’sWhy . BUT.
I asked this question some time ago and it now appears to be mandatory to ask again. What country are you living in?
The red warning signs have been flashing for months. Why is there any thinking citizen of this republic who, before last night, was complacently unconcerned about the destiny of our nation? To have possessed such stupidity and ignorance is beyond comprehension. We are in an existential crisis comparable only to the CIVIL WAR in our history.
There are only a few months to move heaven and earth to prevent this catastrophe of epic magnitude.
Biden must be told in no uncertain terms that his candidacy is the pathway to unmitigated disaster.
Replacing him is too! Who you gonna run?
Biden has forced this position upon the democratic party and the nation. Replacing him now will be awful and a challenge to overcome the lead that TFG has - and that will grow after last night's horror show and debacle. Not replacing him is a guarantee that TFG wins. I'd rather at least have a fighter's chance. This decision is out of our hands and in fact, 100% up to Biden, both Joe and Jill. I'll support him if he stays, because I am genuinely concerned for the future of democracy is TFG wins, but seriously, WTF??!!
The list of quality candidates is extensive. I suggest you do your homework.
None are known nationwide and a lot of people wd be pissed off. I suggest you eat crow after Biden wins.
Don’t laugh… what do you think of a split ticket with Liz Cheney at the top and Josh Shapiro as VP? The good news is that the Democratic Party is suddenly alive again, and very engaged. We need to run a president who’s going to grab the imagination of Democrats, and scare the shit out of Republicans.
I am a fan of Liz Cheney but only for her response to MAGA..she does not support women's health choices (right to abortion, birthday control etc) and many other values I do NOT support.
So no I could.not support her...it would be undemocratic to me.
Yes. I thought about it, and of course you’re right. Thanks.
I listened to the debate on MSNBC. Alex Wagner’s interview Governor Gavin Newsom who IMHO had the best take of the night. You don’t abandon the President after one disappointing performance. Joe has performed wonderfully for America and its people in many different ways other than on a debate stage. I hate using sports as an example but… when your favorite team loses, do you throw away their jerseys you wear? Of course not. This is not about Biden v tRump, it’s about freedom and democracy v authoritarianism and suppression. I still have Joe’s back because I know he has mine - and yours!
Well said, Lynda! Thanks.
We cannot "unsee" what we saw last night. We cannot "unknow" the outcome in November if changes aren't made. Joe Biden will be older and even more frail in November. He cannot win. If we march toward this outcome with our eyes wide open, then that is on us. There is no shame in aging, or in becoming elderly. Its unthinkable to continue living in denial and having the whole world suffer as a result. Let's figure out how to proceed toward a November victory. We can do this!
Fire the people who prepped Biden for this debate. No video coaching? No zingy one-line rejoinders? No Schmidtian gut-punches to take the bully down from the get-go?
We wouldn’t be having this discussion today if Biden came out prepared to rise to the occasion.
Totally agree. I don’t know if better preparation would have changed the outcome, but he was clearly exhausted . His team should not have locked him up for days on end with prep sessions and mock debates. He should have been playing golf and getting rest. He knows what his administration has done. They should have let Joe be Joe. Instead they pummeled facts and figures into his head, which is not how you win a debate against Trump.
Well expressed Linda....the Democratic advisors/strategists for decades do the same thing over & over & over with their statistics....no one cares. Trump just arrived with his strategy to regurgitate his lies in rapid-fire fashion (firehose of lies is Russian disinformation technique) & he knew they wouldn't be refuted if Biden didn't do it. And he was correct. Why did D outsmart Bidens advisors? It's disturbing
Dude, "prepared" vs. "capable". You're blaming, without evidence, that this is wholly on those who prepared him rather than at least acknowledging even the remotest possibility that he was perfectly prepared, yet incapable of rising to the occasion. That's denying reality of what we all saw.
Dude? That’s perhaps what *you* saw, and I agree there is blame to go around, but it appears you are taking the same “without evidence” approach on the ‘capable’ side.
Biden is certainly capable of landing points and punches, as evidenced by other appearances, such as today’s North Carolina speech. Why he fell so flat during the debate…? No Teleprompter? Head cold? Over-preparation? Bad advisors? Ran out of Geritol?
Your guess is as good as mine.
He was ill, clearly. That's on his prep team, though arguably he would be equally damned if he had cancelled re: illness.
I think that the die is cast and no one can bring the experience and intelligence to this cause of freedom than Joe Biden. Joe Biden is far more vigorous than FDR was in 1940 or 1944. I think the Biden Team over prepared Joe and allowed him to do too much draining travel and meeting with world leaders. The Biden team really fucked up.
More vigorous or not than FDR doesn't mean a damn thing in the current media echo chambers. I posted this elsewhere, but in 1946, a year after FDR passed away, there were 8000 televisions in the US. 8000. Now everyone with a phone will see what we all saw last night. And anything of substance, which Biden clearly won on, will be cheap faked away to make it look even worse than it actually was. And it was actually fucking awful.
Hopefully the Democratic Party has a Plan B. IF not, the country is toast. Goodbye America. It's been nice knowing ya. Bring in Gavin Newsom, or an equivalent. Use whatever procedures or process are available to let Biden step aside with dignity. I fear Biden is ill-equipped to carry us forward for another four years. DO the Dems have a Plan B? Have they even considered there might be a necessity for a Plan B? God, I hope so!