I don’t view it as a democracy. Not when you have the most important election — who leads the country — based upon an Electoral System that was created when we had slaves who counted as 3/5 a person. One person, one vote, regardless of what state you live in! What is so damn complicated about that?
America has never been a democracy in the purest sense of the word and concept. There hasn’t been a country on Earth that ever has been. I’d reframe the premise of the question to ask: Is America aspiring to be a different kind of democracy than the one it seemed to aspire to after World War II? Or after the Civil Rights Movement? Or after the Reagan Revolution and the end of the Cold War? Or as it currently deals with the balkanization of information and tribalism caused by the advent of social media? America isn’t a failing democracy. It’s a flawed one. It always has been. The process of evolving into a better democracy is messy at times and sometimes looks regressive, like the period we are in now. But if you take the long view, these periods are necessary for America to eventually become a better version of itself…hopefully.
I am not persuaded by either/or arguments related to a highly complex subject. Your statement captures reality, Derrick. We are always in a both/and situation; the balance or imbalance being constantly subject to fluctuation. Deciding we are failing is not a solid prescription for improving. Neither is concealing our faults and failures. Perfection is reserved for some other planet than this one. America is an aspiration and always has been. What I would like to see is an open dialogue based on your description of who and what we are. That could be productive. Thank you for bringing this question to ground where we might usefully get our arm around it.
You wrote, "...democracy in the purist sense of the word and concept."
Actually, I believe that the "purist sense of democracy" was that practiced in Ancient Greece. That was not a "representative" democracy. The United States says we are living in a "representative democracy." Right-wingers often say that, "We are a republic; not a democracy." What they're really saying is we are not a Greek democracy.
The Greeks held slaves and their women could not vote. Only free, male citizens were considered citizens and had the right to vote. So even the Ancient Greeks did not practice democracy in the purest sense of all people being equal and each one having a vote.
What do I think Steve? I’m glad you asked! I think you will easily win the debate, and those in the opposition will twisting themselves in knots, trying to refute any, and all points, you make! Good luck, and I can’t wait to hear the recording…:)
I don’t believe we’re a failing democracy, I believe we’ve already failed. When a large part of the country is living at or near the poverty line, children are not safe in schools and medical bankruptcy and predatory insurance companies are a threat for many if not most… How can we still call ourselves a democracy? We are losing rights by the day and our “elected” officials from either party could care less how their constituents live, or even if they live. For all these reasons I believe we are failing democracy on steroids, and nothing can really change it except a mass uprising. Hope I’m wrong, but I see very little evidence that I am.
This is what happens when the rich finally get us in their grasp. A majority of citizens would vote for healthcare, retirement and equal opportunities but are stopped cold by representatives that are bought and paid for. When arguments reach the highest court they are ruled upon by more bought and paid for lifetime appointed, “judges.”
Democracy? The game has been rigged since the beginning.
I think the best thinker on this question is Professor Tim Snyder. His new book, On Freedom, is a profound contribution to the philosophy of Freedom and Democracy. I think it ranks with John Rawls, David Hume, Spinoza, and Epicurus. He puts forth the convincing case that Freedom is not an ideal that exists outside of any person, it is the actual work product of each individual person. I either sculpt my Freedom, or I deny it. If enough people sculpt their Freedom, and if their nation supports such activities, then it is a Free nation. He lists five essential aspects of what a person has to do to sculpt Freedom.
The point here is that no nation is entirely Free, or entirely absent of Freedom. The balance sways, and at any point in time, each person confronts in that moment, in that situation, whether to create their Freedom, or not.
With all this in mind, I would say the United States has chosen to crush its Freedoms and end its Democracy on November 5, but that will not be the last word on the subject. The election puts into power those with the deepest desire to kill our Democracy. But the examples of Matt Gaetz, Pete Hegseth, and South Korea tell us that even when what appears to be overwhelming power is in place to crush a Democracy, it can rise up.
With the nominee story, we see all it takes is 5 people to take steps that are substantial in keeping America a Democracy. In the case of South Korea, we see that even when a Tyrant gets to be President, and puts into place toadies to run the military, a Parliament can rise up, and so can the people.
Democracy will never be fully ended in America, and it will never be fully secured. It is under greater threat now than since the Civil War, but right now, the Congress and the people have all the power they need to let Trump know he is a deadly buffoon, his ideas are simply ridiculous and we won't put up with any coups.
Will we go through a period when MAGA crushes us, we are damn close to it now. But even if they do, we have seen other Tyrannies fall, and ours could too. Keep in mind Nazi Germany the whole damn thing, lasted a grand total of 12 years. And the Soviet Union, again, the whole damn thing, lasted less than 100.
Will we see MAGA contained, able to hurt millions but not crush us and our Freedoms entirely, I think that is possible too.
So the answer to the Oxford question is that it depends on what I do today, me and about 330 million of my fellow Americans.
Thanks for being a Champion of Freedom and Democracy,
Doc, I’m such a jaded citizen. Having moved from Boston to beautiful St Pete Florida (thankfully a blue spot surrounded by red), I have had a front row seat in the horror movie known as the decay due to state demagoguery, courtesy of DeSantis. I have read Tim Snyder’s “On Tyranny.” Every US citizen should read this book. His truthful statements are irrefutable and righteous. So now when is DeSantis going to ban this author?
I’ve subscribed to Dr. Snyder’s substack. His essays are illuminating, stimulating and everything he writes is grounded in historical research. If he is angry with the decay in your country, he doesn’t abide by public outrage or anger. His writings focus on messages that are understandable to all who read them, regardless of their knowledge of historical facts or research protocols. I await my Christmas gift of “On Freedom”. I’ve put it on my Santa list.
We have been shoved down the long road well past the crossroad Patricia. It’s too late. Trump’s new fascists have won. The oligarchs and right wingers will bring the Fourth Reich alive with shocking brutality. I am filled with dread and hopelessness.
The United States does not function as a democracy. Sadly, I think our nation is a failed experiment in democracy. Big money has ruined the electoral process, reducing it to a status of pay to play (legalized bribery). Several ideas popular with the general population remain off the legislative agenda. Our system only serves the 1% and corporate greed. For the rest, there is propaganda and circus.
We can't ask the Question regarding Democracy in America, when people don't Understand the question. We haven't had Civics or Government classes in Highschool since the 90ies, most people don't even know how many branches of government there are,let alone name them. Face it, the American people have been fed a steadily diet of Disinformation and propaganda and don't know how to even put together a rational thought, based on Facts and Truth. Thank You, Steve, for your post this morning ☕ and will reStack ASAP 💯👍
No tuning in live? If not that’s ok - I’ll be looking for it asap. Frankly, I think this democracy is in a death spiral soon to crash and burn. Place blame right where it belongs - the arrogant and corrupt Supreme Court right wing justices who by no means represent the majority of Americans. Our poorly educated ill informed and bigoted citizens led by Trump and his fat cat oligarchs - and Republican politicians who are only lured to Trump’s ham handed administration as the only way to stay in office and not be primaried. As much as it gags me to say it - democracy is all but gone for the United States. I worry for what will happen to all children of not just the US - but the entire world. - Riz.
South Koreans made me sit up and take notice of how a democracy works. We could learn a few things from them. They didn't let the big bad wolf take over their house.
To be sure our democracy has hit a major pothole. If we as a country can slap ourselves sane and come together and reinvent ourselves, our grand experiment of democracy will survive. But it's going to take a lot of looking in the mirror. As a country we have grown, lazy, complacent, dare I say spoiled by all our trappings. That is how empires fall. If we can pull ourselves together and remake a society in which we can all live justly, our republic will survive. But it's not going to happen overnight. We didn't get into this mess overnight.
Since you asked, yes, the U.S. is a failing democracy. But it is not yet irreparably failed. It is a flawed democracy.
Democracy requires the diligent participation of educated citizens. The education citizens receive must include civics, history, mathematical logic (algebra level), and a broad awareness of science. They're not getting that education. As a result, the electorate has proven to be vulnerable to influencers.
These influencers have proven to be utterly unethical and ruthless in their attempt to overthrow our constitutional order. Now criminals are about to take total control of the federal government.
Worse, the Supreme Court sabotaged our constitutional order by ruling that a president has immunity from prosecution for official acts, taking the United States back to an age prior to the year 1215, when the principle that rulers are not above the law was established in the Magna Carta.
The sad part is that many in America grew up to believe that the Constitution meant something, that the Bill of Rights meant something, that the Rule of Law meant something, and what is happening is that they are all being bypassed and ignored in the quest for money, power, and control. Serving the great good has gone out the window. Now it is take control, by any means possible, and keep control by any means, no matter who and what you hurt. Too much money and too much power and too much control, in too few hands needs to be fixed or this will only get worse than it is already. And I fear that there will be a correction that will tear America apart even further. People used to "freedom" will only take it so long as their freedoms are taken from them, with no recourse to reclaim them, before they act to take it back..............
My glass is half empty on this issue. My fear is that history will mark January 20, 2025 as not only the day when the US had a peaceful transfer of power but also a silent coup that changed our form of government to an oligarchy run by millionaires. Future elections will be as manipulated and meaningless as they are in Russia.
Our arguments between right and left leaning, are at their core those around freedoms and who gets them. That in and of itself is a failure of democracy. In a thriving democracy, receding freedom of any kind is not on the ballot. Trading the well- being of one group because of the prejudices (often religious, racist, or bigotry based) for another’s is a failure.
A court of men and women deemed higher than any freedom, is a failure. Their ownership of their own boundaries of their reach, is a failure.
Selling tent space for, and separating families who enter seeking freedom itself, is a failure. Denying them is a failure. Not organizing the care for, and goal of accepting them and their gifts is a failure. Do we ever talk about the incredible gifts immigrants bring us? Our country was built off of those gifts, and talents and passions and traditions.
Oligarchy is a failure. Not holding the rich compliant in paying their part to participate is a failure.
Banning books is a failure.
Giving our votes to a machine to count, therefore making them vulnerable to theft of any kind is a failure, and lazy. Not questioning that process is a failure. And a big one.
People will argue that the debates we have by definition make us a vibrant democracy.
I think that is untrue. Debates about one’s right to love anybody they want, seek the psychologically healthiest personal route in life, or where one goes to the bathroom, are all failed debates. Remember the right to “the pursuit of happiness”?
I do.
We allow smoke and mirrors and downright lies to the head of the class. Often rewarding the audacity of the nerve to even say what was said. We are not indignant that the other lied, not insulted, not a “NO” in sight. A media that supports that is a failure of democracy. However, we move on and the needle of democracy is slowed like a battery-less clock. Lies have become a standard in our communication. That is definitely a sign of a failing democracy.
Yes we’re failing, or our democracy is being stolen, whichever you choose to witness. And in my opinion, denying that we’re failing will be the last nail in its coffin.
I don’t view it as a democracy. Not when you have the most important election — who leads the country — based upon an Electoral System that was created when we had slaves who counted as 3/5 a person. One person, one vote, regardless of what state you live in! What is so damn complicated about that?
When Mitch McConnell tells you he loves the Electoral College, FULL STOP. Right there you know it is terrible for our country.
The electoral college has nothing on SCOTUS! They’re doing more harm to voter rights than the electoral college ever could!….:)
I agree. Here is more proof, this time in NC: https://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/article295967384.html
America has never been a democracy in the purest sense of the word and concept. There hasn’t been a country on Earth that ever has been. I’d reframe the premise of the question to ask: Is America aspiring to be a different kind of democracy than the one it seemed to aspire to after World War II? Or after the Civil Rights Movement? Or after the Reagan Revolution and the end of the Cold War? Or as it currently deals with the balkanization of information and tribalism caused by the advent of social media? America isn’t a failing democracy. It’s a flawed one. It always has been. The process of evolving into a better democracy is messy at times and sometimes looks regressive, like the period we are in now. But if you take the long view, these periods are necessary for America to eventually become a better version of itself…hopefully.
I am not persuaded by either/or arguments related to a highly complex subject. Your statement captures reality, Derrick. We are always in a both/and situation; the balance or imbalance being constantly subject to fluctuation. Deciding we are failing is not a solid prescription for improving. Neither is concealing our faults and failures. Perfection is reserved for some other planet than this one. America is an aspiration and always has been. What I would like to see is an open dialogue based on your description of who and what we are. That could be productive. Thank you for bringing this question to ground where we might usefully get our arm around it.
Excellent statements Derrick.
Derrick:
You wrote, "...democracy in the purist sense of the word and concept."
Actually, I believe that the "purist sense of democracy" was that practiced in Ancient Greece. That was not a "representative" democracy. The United States says we are living in a "representative democracy." Right-wingers often say that, "We are a republic; not a democracy." What they're really saying is we are not a Greek democracy.
The Greeks held slaves and their women could not vote. Only free, male citizens were considered citizens and had the right to vote. So even the Ancient Greeks did not practice democracy in the purest sense of all people being equal and each one having a vote.
That is the most optimistic, hopeful view. I hope you are correct.
What do I think Steve? I’m glad you asked! I think you will easily win the debate, and those in the opposition will twisting themselves in knots, trying to refute any, and all points, you make! Good luck, and I can’t wait to hear the recording…:)
Ditto...:-)
Lisa,
Good to see you are still hanging in there. Be healthy.
Thank you, Mr. D.! I appreciate your kindness, and I hope you are well, too :-)
I don’t believe we’re a failing democracy, I believe we’ve already failed. When a large part of the country is living at or near the poverty line, children are not safe in schools and medical bankruptcy and predatory insurance companies are a threat for many if not most… How can we still call ourselves a democracy? We are losing rights by the day and our “elected” officials from either party could care less how their constituents live, or even if they live. For all these reasons I believe we are failing democracy on steroids, and nothing can really change it except a mass uprising. Hope I’m wrong, but I see very little evidence that I am.
As Steve is fond of pointing out, 40% of Americans don’t have $400 in the bank. What relevance is “democracy” to them?
Susan,
This is what happens when the rich finally get us in their grasp. A majority of citizens would vote for healthcare, retirement and equal opportunities but are stopped cold by representatives that are bought and paid for. When arguments reach the highest court they are ruled upon by more bought and paid for lifetime appointed, “judges.”
Democracy? The game has been rigged since the beginning.
I think the best thinker on this question is Professor Tim Snyder. His new book, On Freedom, is a profound contribution to the philosophy of Freedom and Democracy. I think it ranks with John Rawls, David Hume, Spinoza, and Epicurus. He puts forth the convincing case that Freedom is not an ideal that exists outside of any person, it is the actual work product of each individual person. I either sculpt my Freedom, or I deny it. If enough people sculpt their Freedom, and if their nation supports such activities, then it is a Free nation. He lists five essential aspects of what a person has to do to sculpt Freedom.
The point here is that no nation is entirely Free, or entirely absent of Freedom. The balance sways, and at any point in time, each person confronts in that moment, in that situation, whether to create their Freedom, or not.
With all this in mind, I would say the United States has chosen to crush its Freedoms and end its Democracy on November 5, but that will not be the last word on the subject. The election puts into power those with the deepest desire to kill our Democracy. But the examples of Matt Gaetz, Pete Hegseth, and South Korea tell us that even when what appears to be overwhelming power is in place to crush a Democracy, it can rise up.
With the nominee story, we see all it takes is 5 people to take steps that are substantial in keeping America a Democracy. In the case of South Korea, we see that even when a Tyrant gets to be President, and puts into place toadies to run the military, a Parliament can rise up, and so can the people.
Democracy will never be fully ended in America, and it will never be fully secured. It is under greater threat now than since the Civil War, but right now, the Congress and the people have all the power they need to let Trump know he is a deadly buffoon, his ideas are simply ridiculous and we won't put up with any coups.
Will we go through a period when MAGA crushes us, we are damn close to it now. But even if they do, we have seen other Tyrannies fall, and ours could too. Keep in mind Nazi Germany the whole damn thing, lasted a grand total of 12 years. And the Soviet Union, again, the whole damn thing, lasted less than 100.
Will we see MAGA contained, able to hurt millions but not crush us and our Freedoms entirely, I think that is possible too.
So the answer to the Oxford question is that it depends on what I do today, me and about 330 million of my fellow Americans.
Thanks for being a Champion of Freedom and Democracy,
Arthur Lavin MD
Doc, I’m such a jaded citizen. Having moved from Boston to beautiful St Pete Florida (thankfully a blue spot surrounded by red), I have had a front row seat in the horror movie known as the decay due to state demagoguery, courtesy of DeSantis. I have read Tim Snyder’s “On Tyranny.” Every US citizen should read this book. His truthful statements are irrefutable and righteous. So now when is DeSantis going to ban this author?
I’ve subscribed to Dr. Snyder’s substack. His essays are illuminating, stimulating and everything he writes is grounded in historical research. If he is angry with the decay in your country, he doesn’t abide by public outrage or anger. His writings focus on messages that are understandable to all who read them, regardless of their knowledge of historical facts or research protocols. I await my Christmas gift of “On Freedom”. I’ve put it on my Santa list.
I say we are at a crossroads, and it might be premature to say which way we are going. But the next four years will set our fate. We must be strong.
We have been shoved down the long road well past the crossroad Patricia. It’s too late. Trump’s new fascists have won. The oligarchs and right wingers will bring the Fourth Reich alive with shocking brutality. I am filled with dread and hopelessness.
That's too negative. We are just getting started. I am not lying down when we are just getting started!
I agree, Sandra. There is still time. But the window is narrowing. We need a leader to step forward soon.
The United States does not function as a democracy. Sadly, I think our nation is a failed experiment in democracy. Big money has ruined the electoral process, reducing it to a status of pay to play (legalized bribery). Several ideas popular with the general population remain off the legislative agenda. Our system only serves the 1% and corporate greed. For the rest, there is propaganda and circus.
We can't ask the Question regarding Democracy in America, when people don't Understand the question. We haven't had Civics or Government classes in Highschool since the 90ies, most people don't even know how many branches of government there are,let alone name them. Face it, the American people have been fed a steadily diet of Disinformation and propaganda and don't know how to even put together a rational thought, based on Facts and Truth. Thank You, Steve, for your post this morning ☕ and will reStack ASAP 💯👍
Agree, 100% Karen.
No tuning in live? If not that’s ok - I’ll be looking for it asap. Frankly, I think this democracy is in a death spiral soon to crash and burn. Place blame right where it belongs - the arrogant and corrupt Supreme Court right wing justices who by no means represent the majority of Americans. Our poorly educated ill informed and bigoted citizens led by Trump and his fat cat oligarchs - and Republican politicians who are only lured to Trump’s ham handed administration as the only way to stay in office and not be primaried. As much as it gags me to say it - democracy is all but gone for the United States. I worry for what will happen to all children of not just the US - but the entire world. - Riz.
I would put “poorly educated ill informed and bigoted citizens“ at the top, from which all the other problems stem.
South Koreans made me sit up and take notice of how a democracy works. We could learn a few things from them. They didn't let the big bad wolf take over their house.
To be sure our democracy has hit a major pothole. If we as a country can slap ourselves sane and come together and reinvent ourselves, our grand experiment of democracy will survive. But it's going to take a lot of looking in the mirror. As a country we have grown, lazy, complacent, dare I say spoiled by all our trappings. That is how empires fall. If we can pull ourselves together and remake a society in which we can all live justly, our republic will survive. But it's not going to happen overnight. We didn't get into this mess overnight.
I’m hoping it’s a reemerging democracy. That’s what I’ll be working toward. The debate should be tasty.
Since you asked, yes, the U.S. is a failing democracy. But it is not yet irreparably failed. It is a flawed democracy.
Democracy requires the diligent participation of educated citizens. The education citizens receive must include civics, history, mathematical logic (algebra level), and a broad awareness of science. They're not getting that education. As a result, the electorate has proven to be vulnerable to influencers.
These influencers have proven to be utterly unethical and ruthless in their attempt to overthrow our constitutional order. Now criminals are about to take total control of the federal government.
Worse, the Supreme Court sabotaged our constitutional order by ruling that a president has immunity from prosecution for official acts, taking the United States back to an age prior to the year 1215, when the principle that rulers are not above the law was established in the Magna Carta.
Therefore, I conclude we are a failing democracy.
The sad part is that many in America grew up to believe that the Constitution meant something, that the Bill of Rights meant something, that the Rule of Law meant something, and what is happening is that they are all being bypassed and ignored in the quest for money, power, and control. Serving the great good has gone out the window. Now it is take control, by any means possible, and keep control by any means, no matter who and what you hurt. Too much money and too much power and too much control, in too few hands needs to be fixed or this will only get worse than it is already. And I fear that there will be a correction that will tear America apart even further. People used to "freedom" will only take it so long as their freedoms are taken from them, with no recourse to reclaim them, before they act to take it back..............
You said exactly how I feel. Can't wait to hear the recording. Go Steve!!
My glass is half empty on this issue. My fear is that history will mark January 20, 2025 as not only the day when the US had a peaceful transfer of power but also a silent coup that changed our form of government to an oligarchy run by millionaires. Future elections will be as manipulated and meaningless as they are in Russia.
Can’t wait to see this.
Failing, yes.
Our arguments between right and left leaning, are at their core those around freedoms and who gets them. That in and of itself is a failure of democracy. In a thriving democracy, receding freedom of any kind is not on the ballot. Trading the well- being of one group because of the prejudices (often religious, racist, or bigotry based) for another’s is a failure.
A court of men and women deemed higher than any freedom, is a failure. Their ownership of their own boundaries of their reach, is a failure.
Selling tent space for, and separating families who enter seeking freedom itself, is a failure. Denying them is a failure. Not organizing the care for, and goal of accepting them and their gifts is a failure. Do we ever talk about the incredible gifts immigrants bring us? Our country was built off of those gifts, and talents and passions and traditions.
Oligarchy is a failure. Not holding the rich compliant in paying their part to participate is a failure.
Banning books is a failure.
Giving our votes to a machine to count, therefore making them vulnerable to theft of any kind is a failure, and lazy. Not questioning that process is a failure. And a big one.
People will argue that the debates we have by definition make us a vibrant democracy.
I think that is untrue. Debates about one’s right to love anybody they want, seek the psychologically healthiest personal route in life, or where one goes to the bathroom, are all failed debates. Remember the right to “the pursuit of happiness”?
I do.
We allow smoke and mirrors and downright lies to the head of the class. Often rewarding the audacity of the nerve to even say what was said. We are not indignant that the other lied, not insulted, not a “NO” in sight. A media that supports that is a failure of democracy. However, we move on and the needle of democracy is slowed like a battery-less clock. Lies have become a standard in our communication. That is definitely a sign of a failing democracy.
Yes we’re failing, or our democracy is being stolen, whichever you choose to witness. And in my opinion, denying that we’re failing will be the last nail in its coffin.