I’ve lost faith and trust in people because of this election. I’m speaking personally, but I view others now as having bad intentions. There is nothing altruistic about MAGA. No sense of community or decency. I view others now with the most intense negativity and it feels highly appropriate.
Although I agree with you John, the hardest part of this is to distinguish between the Trump voters who, by orbiting within the MAGA echo chambers and ecosystem, are ill-, mis-, and dis-informed and the ones with actual bad intentions. I honestly don't even know if that matters as we are still in the situation and coming wave of insanity regardless. The ones with the power to do harm, Trump, Congress, his cabinet, and advisors, are obviously filled with bad intentions.
Whether or not a Trump voter purposely swam in the dark recesses of the far-right christo-fascist legacy & social media spheres does not absolve them of deciding to pull the lever for a man a grand jury ascertained enough evidence was put forth to charge him for sexual abuse. A jury of his peers found him guilty of the offense. Which a judge stated, had the case been heard in a criminal court, Trump would have been found guilty of the crime of RAPE. Yes, RAPE. There was a time in this country where a person found guilty of sexual assault was not exactly considered a model citizen. No one in their right mind would advocate this same person should be awarded the privilege of parking their derriere at the resolute desk with his stubby little fingers hovering over the nuclear codes. That they justify doing so over the price of eggs is bizarre at best and thoroughly idiotic at worst. We haven't as yet gotten to Trump being found guilty of 34 felony counts of falsified business records. So, um, yeah, every single person who voted for Trump has shown, by their action to have no respect for ethics, morals, the law or decency. While some MAGA adherents might be further down the ladder in terms of actual evil doing, all these voters took a conscious implicit action to put this adjudicated RAPIST and CONVICTED FELON in the White House. A guy they would never want to work with let alone hire. Seriously. He couldn't get a job at my dog's doggie daycare where all the employees are bonded. What on earth are we, as a country, teaching our children? Never read a book? You don't need to study or learn anything? Never listen to your teachers or anyone who's an adult? It's a great attribute to possess zero curiosity about the world? Never back down, even if you're wrong? Make fun of differently abled people? Don't respect those who serve in our nation's military willing to give their life for our country? Never, ever show mercy, compassion or empathy for anyone? Never trust anyone? Loyalty to you and you alone is the most important thing in your life? It's perfectly fine to use, gaslight and scam people? Never pay your bills? The law is only for suckers and losers? Feel free to disregard societal norms? Political norms? Exact vengeance on those you deem have wronged you? Never apologize and you too can be President? This is who every single person who voted for Trump voted for. A man who believes in all that.
Although I agree with what you have stated Debbie, IMO, many of the people who voted for him have succumbed to the echo chamber of lather rinse and repeat refrain that this was a political witch hunt. Some have therefore fallen victim to step 1 of the authoritarian playbook: sow distrust in government and all institutions, and believe only what I tell you to believe. Therefore, to many of them, your stated, "This is who every single person who voted for Trump voted for" is simply not true. If they didn't hear or believe he was an adjudicated rapist and convicted felon because they've heard this "lie" hundreds or thousands of times (again, they've heard it from him and his acolytes for years), I'm just not willing to hate or cut them out of my life. My personal choice is to hold people responsible for their decisions, but try not to hate.
As messed up as it is, they believe the bullshit with the same conviction that you believe the truth that you so clearly outlined above. I'm in no way defending Trump or them, they just live in a different reality, one that is all based on hate, lies, and misinformation. What they have had spoon fed to them for 9 years is he's a victim, they are a victim, and he will help them. It's all BS to you and me, but not to many of them. Call it brainwashing or a cult if that helps, but it doesn't make it any less real to them. Remember the old adage, "perception equals reality".
It just doesn't matter anymore. Whatever their malice, state of disinformation or ignorance, they made a choice that is devastating to our character, national security and future. I share none of their so-called values or objectives. Reform and renewal is not possible in the current construction of this country.
It does matter if you want to reach people in the next election. I'd encourage you to at least recognize that others like me are not willing to split my family or my love for someone because of their vote. Kamala and the D party should have paid attention, but at least in part, they were asleep at the wheel. regardless of what her campaign says, this was not a flawless campaign. Her stating that she would do NOTHING different than Biden contributed significantly to some if not many voters feeling that Trump would be no worse for them. If you can't process multiple things affecting the outcome, I can't help that.
As an example, in an interview between Medhi Hassan and Brian Tyler Cohen, Medhi pointed out that Kamala needed to win PA, MI, and WI and she would have been the president elect. She lost those 3 states by a combined 230K votes. That means had she won 116K more votes in the right places, we'd be having a different conversation today. There are nearly 500K Muslims in those 3 states. Medhi has talked at length with Muslims about their support for Trump. He asked them if they realized Trump would be worse for them and Gaza and many of them responded that Kamala's refusal to distance herself from Biden's policy led them to vote for Trump. Many of them felt that with 42k dead, how much worse could it be.
You can blame, bitch and moan all you want about the Trump voters. I'll maintain that some felt he was a better choice based on what is important to them - not what' s important to you or me - and some were grossly ill-informed. The beautiful thing about our elections is not everyone votes on the issues that affect you or me. Some don't view him as a threat to democracy, even though he is. You're basing your view on a wrong assumption that everyone reads, listens to, and watches - and therefore knows - everything that you do. And then subsequently assume they should base their voting choice on information that they don't have. And ultimately, I'm not willing to hate the people in my life who may have voted for him. Keep telling me it's their fault all you want. There's plenty of blame to go around.
That POS got 63 million votes in 2016, 74 million in 2020, and 77 million in 2024. Something is resonating with a lot of people, no matter how much we want to pretend or believe it's not possible. But hey, blame the voters instead of at least acknowledging that we ran a flawed campaign, or Biden should have never run, the Rs in the Senate who refused to impeach, or any other complete nonsense that contributed to the devastating loss. I for one will not hate, no matter how disappointed I am in the result.
By any rational measure, we cannot ascribe the word cult to a voting block of 77 million people. As to why so many voted for their own servitude and destruction is not clear to me. But, when I look at the people getting elected at various levels of government, we are not putting the best we have into public service. In fact, we are actually putting the worst we have into public service.
Thank you, Mike, for your response. It is hard for me not to be so angry about what is happening. I still can’t believe so many people went along like sheep to the voting booth. You’re right, though. We have to look at everyone individually even if I’m inclined not to on any given day. I feel such an uncertainty about my future and I’m sure I’m not alone. Some days it is hard to think kindly about the people who got us here. Aw, hell.
I don’t think kindly of the people who got us to where we are, either. But it has been a long time coming in many ways. In Tennessee, Marsha Blackburn gets big numbers, yet she opposes equal pay for women. It is part of an effort to keep women at home and out of the workforce. Why anyone, male or female, would support her is beyond me, but they do.
Thank you, Libby. It is very hard to process and understand. And so disappointing of the chaos, cruelty, and insanity coming soon our way...again! Ugh. I wish we could have a do over, or at least wake up from this shared nightmare, but sadly, this is all too real. For the people in my life who voted for him, we will not discuss politics. It's the only way we can compromise on this. I just can't toss 77 million people into a big bucket and say they're all stupid. That is the height of coastal elite hubris and one of the reasons we lost, not recognizing some people were actually suffering. Our side failed to deliver that message and make a clear and obvious choice and that's unfortunate.
I am who I am and I have cut off relationships with all Trump/Maga supporters in my family. My relationships with them had been strained for years over their ties to evangelical Christianity and political movements like the Tea Party.Their support for the Trump/Maga movement was the last straw. What I saw as the most corrupt and dangerous political movement in our history they saw as the dawning of a bright, new, United Christian America! I never had a friend who supported Trump or his disgusting movement.
Having acknowledged all this, I think you are right; it is better to keep the lines of communication open with Maga cultists. I just can't separate them from their views, and thus, I can't respect them as people. That is my shortcoming, as my fits of angry rebuke of them has simply hardened their far right views and left no chance for productive conversation and re-examination of their political and religious goals.
I agree. I won’t let voters off the hook because they may have been mis- or dis-informed. Everyone has the obligation to seek out the facts. These folks are just lazy.
Without sounding crude or cruel, they are simply stupid. That is how I see it. Being gullible and perhaps naive is in their DNA. Sadly, the rest of us will have to suffer along with them for the errors of their ways.
They choose the path of least resistance. They consider researching any fact-based material too difficult. It's easier to whine about their comeuppance after the fact. Too bad, so sad.
As I stated, I don't know if it matters because of where we are and where we are going to be on and after 1/20/25, but I have a hard time lumping all 77 some odd million voters in the same pile as Trump, Patel, Bondi, Hegseth, Gabbard, Miller, Bannon, etc. Personally, I can't view them the same. Some voters absolutely voted on hate of "other" however they defined it, but some did not. I'm not willing to carry that much hate, disdain, vitriol - or let them live rent free - in my heart and mind by doing so. If it works for you and others, go right ahead.
I agree with you Mike. I can't put my "brainwashed by Fox" Mother in the same category but she still makes excuses for all Trump's behaviors and that I can't forgive or forget. Same with the so-called Christian Trump voters. As she is. I have so much anger it's not funny. I'm with Steve 100%. And if Biden pardon's Trump I will be livid. Grrrrr.
Hi Bonnie Sue. While I agree with your assessment that all Trumpers are in a cult, I strongly disagree that we cannot cut any of them an iota of respect.
The really annoying thing about being human is that to varying degrees we are all damaged, fallible, insecure, pissed-off, the list is long, and there are real causes responsible for landing us in those sorry states.
To maintain a basic level of respect for our fellow human beings, keeps the door open for us to connect someday, on something… hopefully a better future for all.
People trapped in a cult need help. They need help to escape and to recover. As my millennial son recently opined re the impending storm, compassion will be key.
As we move forward, we need to analize what caused millions of people to vote for such a despicable, lawless, ultimately weak man. What did the consummate con man offer? What did we not offer?
We on the outside can make educated guesses about how the country got to this moment but it’s the members of the cult who have the real answers. We must care enough about them, to find out those authentic answers, and that will require their engagement, and our respect.
No more silos. Be smart and safe but keep everything as open as possible so that we can build the alliances required for a brave new world.
Any suggestions on how we do that? Right now all they seem to want to do is preach Trump and how great all his ideas and nominees are and I can't listen to that bc I know better.
Lisa, I think we can be kind, take care of ourselves by being as ready as we can be for what might happen, be as proactive as we can be by staying in contact with our legislators, staying up on the news, taking care to keep our body and minds sharp (I just polished off the ice cream! Drat). All of that kind of stuff. I, too, am ignoring trump. I know what he has to say. I have also decided for now not to engage in argument with people who are blind to what is going on. Those discussions about what a good guy trump is are not all that great for the sanity I have left. So, I’m trying to do all that stuff, some days I do better than others. I’m trying to be chill. Actually I’m freezing cold inside (my toes, too) and feeling insecure about what the future holds and if I will be up to the hardships that are coming. The good thing is we’re in this together. Having the camaraderie of everyone on these Bulwark sites sure helps.
Thank you Libby. All great suggestions. I've been doing some of those. (Hershey Kisses instead of ice cream. Lol) Been contacting my Senator and Representatives. Just still have so much anger towards Maga people in the community. Even in my family. 💔😒
We fought the revolution to rid ourselves of a king and his tyranny. We fought WWII to defeat nazis. Why in the world are we turning everything over to a fascist leader and his ilk?
We should not let him take office. Call in the military to guard all of our institutions and prepare. Would we let Hitler take office? Forget the election. Save America from harm. Those in power now, took an oath to protect the constitution. Please protect us from certain harm.
To those who are completely anti-Orange Menace, I show empathy very willingly. Unfortunately, to those who are very pro for this clear and present danger, I am totally jaded. I feel no empathy whatsoever. And when it's time for all of us to say, "We told you so," when they are whining away their discomfiture, I will say my piece and walk away. They refused to listen, to THINK, to change this obsession with this waste of space. Their bed, they made it; now, they can sleep in it.
The sane-washing has already begun. We are in for a rough four years ahead as everyone, including media, capitulates to the orange god. Heaven help this country.
This is not just a 4-year proposition. Those who foolishly thought that 4 years of a "normal" administration would stabilize the country and set us on a positive path now have to face reality. To think that path forward is waiting on the other side of this disaster - however long it may be - is willfully naive.
You are right, Steve, and I appreciate your changed attitude toward military service for your kids if Hegseth is confirmed (shudder). Also wanted to add: didn't we all learn this lesson of World War II and appeasement of a crazed tyrant along with Neville Chamberlain??? Any dreams of "peace in our time" with the orange turd would only lead to all of us being splattered with his foul feces, which he throws around like the spoiled toddler he really is.
Steve, I shared your essay on Facebook and they said it broke Facebook standards. What bullshit! They can show lies of Trump but mentioning Mel Gibson and Hegseth broke standards? What a joke!
I ran into the same problem but got around it by just saying positive statements and recognizing Honorable, Patriotic, Serving military and Veterans. General Mark Milley is my friend on Face book.
Did they specify what “standards” were broken? Short of yelling”fire!” in a crowded theater, I support and defend the first amendment. Perhaps we should start a class action suit. One of my posts was also rejected.
Do we have enough energy to take that on, too? I’m sure willing to be involved with raising money to ensure that the people who spoke up against trump can afford an attorney.
Thank you Steve. No more will I listen to network MSM trying to whitewash Trump and his co-horts insane nonsense about revenge on lawful investigations of his behavior on January 6.
Steve, You are absolutely correct. If any of my students start taking about joining the military and Hedseth is SECDEF I will do all in my power to dissuade them. I served nearly 40 years in the military and I can be proud of serving our country. If Hegseth becomes SECDEF the military will become a criminal organization used against other countries with no restraint and against our citizens and current allies. If he is not confirmed I will still be concerned by any other Trump nominee. But no one more incompetent and amoral cannot be found. All the best, Steve Dundas
Steve: I'm interested in your opinion as a retired military man. Is it at all possible that the military would stand up to Trump and NOT follow orders if he wants to use them against us? I can't imagine all branches of the military capitulating to that insane piece of crap! Perhaps he would just use the National Guide for his dirty work?
Jennifer, I read an article today in which a general, maybe Milley, said they told one of trump’s guys that the military won’t go along with their rotten plans. He said the troops would defend the constitution. It sounded like a message to the troops and trump. Milley really strikes me as a person who can reason problems out well. He’s also honest and dedicated his life to service. I think he also has earned the respect of the military.
Appreciate your thanks, but I am afraid that because many of those in the military and law enforcement were weaned on 40 years of right wing propaganda that they are primed to follow his orders.
Are you saying certain parts of the military have not previously been used for criminal activities in other countries? Abu Grad comes to mind and many others…many others! Not that I have any confidence that the military will not be used against civilians in this country in violation of the law.
Abu Ghraib was a war crime. Thankfully some soldiers reported it and those responsible were punished. However, the invasion of Iraq was a violation of numerous international treaties and we tried the Germans for the crime of waging wars of aggression at Nuremberg. I have written about that before, but that was on my legacy site.
I envision a time when every Democrat, Independent and Republicans Against Trump will constantly barrage Trump and his sycophants on social media, as well as through the White House, with truth against their constant lies. They can't drag 72 million plus of us off to camps or penalize in some other, equally treacherous way. There absolutely CAN be strength, but also safety in numbers. I will not be cajoled or forced to follow the herd that is dead from the neck up. Over MY dead body!
"The new standard is a simple one. Be “nice” to Trump, and he will be nice to you.
This is the wrong path — and the most dangerous one."
The "new standard" is appalling. Kids know instinctively that appeasing the schoolyard bully will likely backfire, since kowtowing usually serves only to embolden the bully and further imperil the victim. The MSM needs to retake Playground 101. And to learn from Liz Cheney, who fired right back at Trump after he threatened on "Meet the Press" yesterday to imprison her and other members of the J6 congressional committee. She called his claims a "threat to the rule of law and the foundations of our republic." Had MSM confronted the Orange Thing head-on in the years after he came down that tacky escalator on June 16, 2015, we would not be facing the abyss today.
In the avalanche of ludicrous and dangerous appointees, and there are too many to keep track of, let’s not go to sleep on Kristi Noem as Secretary of Homeland Security. She is an unserious person who poses a serious threat to all of us.
Would like you and your supporters know that I am a Vietnam Combat Veteran that served in 69/70 @ Danang. Look it up to See the horrors we faced to protect Global Democracy. Bad decisions were made to make our task far worse. WE Cannot let that happen Again! Every day I have been in contact with Retired Chief of staff Mark Milley who Every true American Patriot should thank God we had a highly Intelligent, Knowledgeable, Experienced Commander that looked over the Safety and Security in the most Professional way possible. My 2 nephews who served in Afghanistan and Iraq sure do. Please support The American Legion, VFW, VA, USO and any other groups that support Active Military and Veterans. Thank you for your support.
I’m thankful for your service on our behalf, Larry. I’m glad you came home. Agree with you about Milley. His reasoning, support of his troops, his willingness to speak truth helps me feel better.
My only hope is that the utter incompetence and eventual in fighting of all the MAGA folks will lead to their downfall. Nylon Tusk is already pushing his way into tRumps territory, that won’t last. As you say, No, No, No to all his current circus picks and then let them eat themselves alive. Who’s keeping an eye on Joe who seems hellbent on saying “It’ll be alright” every chance he gets. Disappointment in the conduct of Merritt, Joe and Shumer doesn’t begin to describe it
My God, the insanity of all this! Let's all have a very joyous holiday season everybody because the raw sh$t is coming Jan 20. I'm with you Steve. Thanks for keeping it real.
I’ve lost faith and trust in people because of this election. I’m speaking personally, but I view others now as having bad intentions. There is nothing altruistic about MAGA. No sense of community or decency. I view others now with the most intense negativity and it feels highly appropriate.
Although I agree with you John, the hardest part of this is to distinguish between the Trump voters who, by orbiting within the MAGA echo chambers and ecosystem, are ill-, mis-, and dis-informed and the ones with actual bad intentions. I honestly don't even know if that matters as we are still in the situation and coming wave of insanity regardless. The ones with the power to do harm, Trump, Congress, his cabinet, and advisors, are obviously filled with bad intentions.
Whether or not a Trump voter purposely swam in the dark recesses of the far-right christo-fascist legacy & social media spheres does not absolve them of deciding to pull the lever for a man a grand jury ascertained enough evidence was put forth to charge him for sexual abuse. A jury of his peers found him guilty of the offense. Which a judge stated, had the case been heard in a criminal court, Trump would have been found guilty of the crime of RAPE. Yes, RAPE. There was a time in this country where a person found guilty of sexual assault was not exactly considered a model citizen. No one in their right mind would advocate this same person should be awarded the privilege of parking their derriere at the resolute desk with his stubby little fingers hovering over the nuclear codes. That they justify doing so over the price of eggs is bizarre at best and thoroughly idiotic at worst. We haven't as yet gotten to Trump being found guilty of 34 felony counts of falsified business records. So, um, yeah, every single person who voted for Trump has shown, by their action to have no respect for ethics, morals, the law or decency. While some MAGA adherents might be further down the ladder in terms of actual evil doing, all these voters took a conscious implicit action to put this adjudicated RAPIST and CONVICTED FELON in the White House. A guy they would never want to work with let alone hire. Seriously. He couldn't get a job at my dog's doggie daycare where all the employees are bonded. What on earth are we, as a country, teaching our children? Never read a book? You don't need to study or learn anything? Never listen to your teachers or anyone who's an adult? It's a great attribute to possess zero curiosity about the world? Never back down, even if you're wrong? Make fun of differently abled people? Don't respect those who serve in our nation's military willing to give their life for our country? Never, ever show mercy, compassion or empathy for anyone? Never trust anyone? Loyalty to you and you alone is the most important thing in your life? It's perfectly fine to use, gaslight and scam people? Never pay your bills? The law is only for suckers and losers? Feel free to disregard societal norms? Political norms? Exact vengeance on those you deem have wronged you? Never apologize and you too can be President? This is who every single person who voted for Trump voted for. A man who believes in all that.
Although I agree with what you have stated Debbie, IMO, many of the people who voted for him have succumbed to the echo chamber of lather rinse and repeat refrain that this was a political witch hunt. Some have therefore fallen victim to step 1 of the authoritarian playbook: sow distrust in government and all institutions, and believe only what I tell you to believe. Therefore, to many of them, your stated, "This is who every single person who voted for Trump voted for" is simply not true. If they didn't hear or believe he was an adjudicated rapist and convicted felon because they've heard this "lie" hundreds or thousands of times (again, they've heard it from him and his acolytes for years), I'm just not willing to hate or cut them out of my life. My personal choice is to hold people responsible for their decisions, but try not to hate.
As messed up as it is, they believe the bullshit with the same conviction that you believe the truth that you so clearly outlined above. I'm in no way defending Trump or them, they just live in a different reality, one that is all based on hate, lies, and misinformation. What they have had spoon fed to them for 9 years is he's a victim, they are a victim, and he will help them. It's all BS to you and me, but not to many of them. Call it brainwashing or a cult if that helps, but it doesn't make it any less real to them. Remember the old adage, "perception equals reality".
It just doesn't matter anymore. Whatever their malice, state of disinformation or ignorance, they made a choice that is devastating to our character, national security and future. I share none of their so-called values or objectives. Reform and renewal is not possible in the current construction of this country.
It does matter if you want to reach people in the next election. I'd encourage you to at least recognize that others like me are not willing to split my family or my love for someone because of their vote. Kamala and the D party should have paid attention, but at least in part, they were asleep at the wheel. regardless of what her campaign says, this was not a flawless campaign. Her stating that she would do NOTHING different than Biden contributed significantly to some if not many voters feeling that Trump would be no worse for them. If you can't process multiple things affecting the outcome, I can't help that.
As an example, in an interview between Medhi Hassan and Brian Tyler Cohen, Medhi pointed out that Kamala needed to win PA, MI, and WI and she would have been the president elect. She lost those 3 states by a combined 230K votes. That means had she won 116K more votes in the right places, we'd be having a different conversation today. There are nearly 500K Muslims in those 3 states. Medhi has talked at length with Muslims about their support for Trump. He asked them if they realized Trump would be worse for them and Gaza and many of them responded that Kamala's refusal to distance herself from Biden's policy led them to vote for Trump. Many of them felt that with 42k dead, how much worse could it be.
You can blame, bitch and moan all you want about the Trump voters. I'll maintain that some felt he was a better choice based on what is important to them - not what' s important to you or me - and some were grossly ill-informed. The beautiful thing about our elections is not everyone votes on the issues that affect you or me. Some don't view him as a threat to democracy, even though he is. You're basing your view on a wrong assumption that everyone reads, listens to, and watches - and therefore knows - everything that you do. And then subsequently assume they should base their voting choice on information that they don't have. And ultimately, I'm not willing to hate the people in my life who may have voted for him. Keep telling me it's their fault all you want. There's plenty of blame to go around.
That POS got 63 million votes in 2016, 74 million in 2020, and 77 million in 2024. Something is resonating with a lot of people, no matter how much we want to pretend or believe it's not possible. But hey, blame the voters instead of at least acknowledging that we ran a flawed campaign, or Biden should have never run, the Rs in the Senate who refused to impeach, or any other complete nonsense that contributed to the devastating loss. I for one will not hate, no matter how disappointed I am in the result.
By any rational measure, we cannot ascribe the word cult to a voting block of 77 million people. As to why so many voted for their own servitude and destruction is not clear to me. But, when I look at the people getting elected at various levels of government, we are not putting the best we have into public service. In fact, we are actually putting the worst we have into public service.
Thank you, Mike, for your response. It is hard for me not to be so angry about what is happening. I still can’t believe so many people went along like sheep to the voting booth. You’re right, though. We have to look at everyone individually even if I’m inclined not to on any given day. I feel such an uncertainty about my future and I’m sure I’m not alone. Some days it is hard to think kindly about the people who got us here. Aw, hell.
I don’t think kindly of the people who got us to where we are, either. But it has been a long time coming in many ways. In Tennessee, Marsha Blackburn gets big numbers, yet she opposes equal pay for women. It is part of an effort to keep women at home and out of the workforce. Why anyone, male or female, would support her is beyond me, but they do.
Thank you, Libby. It is very hard to process and understand. And so disappointing of the chaos, cruelty, and insanity coming soon our way...again! Ugh. I wish we could have a do over, or at least wake up from this shared nightmare, but sadly, this is all too real. For the people in my life who voted for him, we will not discuss politics. It's the only way we can compromise on this. I just can't toss 77 million people into a big bucket and say they're all stupid. That is the height of coastal elite hubris and one of the reasons we lost, not recognizing some people were actually suffering. Our side failed to deliver that message and make a clear and obvious choice and that's unfortunate.
I am who I am and I have cut off relationships with all Trump/Maga supporters in my family. My relationships with them had been strained for years over their ties to evangelical Christianity and political movements like the Tea Party.Their support for the Trump/Maga movement was the last straw. What I saw as the most corrupt and dangerous political movement in our history they saw as the dawning of a bright, new, United Christian America! I never had a friend who supported Trump or his disgusting movement.
Having acknowledged all this, I think you are right; it is better to keep the lines of communication open with Maga cultists. I just can't separate them from their views, and thus, I can't respect them as people. That is my shortcoming, as my fits of angry rebuke of them has simply hardened their far right views and left no chance for productive conversation and re-examination of their political and religious goals.
Mia culpa, Mia culpa, Mia maxima culpa!
Well said. Once a predator, always a predator in my experience.
I’m not sure there’s any difference between those groups. IMO they’ve all got bad intentions whether they knew it or not.
I agree. I won’t let voters off the hook because they may have been mis- or dis-informed. Everyone has the obligation to seek out the facts. These folks are just lazy.
Without sounding crude or cruel, they are simply stupid. That is how I see it. Being gullible and perhaps naive is in their DNA. Sadly, the rest of us will have to suffer along with them for the errors of their ways.
They choose the path of least resistance. They consider researching any fact-based material too difficult. It's easier to whine about their comeuppance after the fact. Too bad, so sad.
As I stated, I don't know if it matters because of where we are and where we are going to be on and after 1/20/25, but I have a hard time lumping all 77 some odd million voters in the same pile as Trump, Patel, Bondi, Hegseth, Gabbard, Miller, Bannon, etc. Personally, I can't view them the same. Some voters absolutely voted on hate of "other" however they defined it, but some did not. I'm not willing to carry that much hate, disdain, vitriol - or let them live rent free - in my heart and mind by doing so. If it works for you and others, go right ahead.
I agree with you Mike. I can't put my "brainwashed by Fox" Mother in the same category but she still makes excuses for all Trump's behaviors and that I can't forgive or forget. Same with the so-called Christian Trump voters. As she is. I have so much anger it's not funny. I'm with Steve 100%. And if Biden pardon's Trump I will be livid. Grrrrr.
He won't, he has a brain.
You cannot and must not cut any of them an iota of respect. They are in a cult, period.
Hi Bonnie Sue. While I agree with your assessment that all Trumpers are in a cult, I strongly disagree that we cannot cut any of them an iota of respect.
The really annoying thing about being human is that to varying degrees we are all damaged, fallible, insecure, pissed-off, the list is long, and there are real causes responsible for landing us in those sorry states.
To maintain a basic level of respect for our fellow human beings, keeps the door open for us to connect someday, on something… hopefully a better future for all.
People trapped in a cult need help. They need help to escape and to recover. As my millennial son recently opined re the impending storm, compassion will be key.
As we move forward, we need to analize what caused millions of people to vote for such a despicable, lawless, ultimately weak man. What did the consummate con man offer? What did we not offer?
We on the outside can make educated guesses about how the country got to this moment but it’s the members of the cult who have the real answers. We must care enough about them, to find out those authentic answers, and that will require their engagement, and our respect.
No more silos. Be smart and safe but keep everything as open as possible so that we can build the alliances required for a brave new world.
Yes, I agree Friedrike. I believe many will have their eyes opened as things unfold.
Any suggestions on how we do that? Right now all they seem to want to do is preach Trump and how great all his ideas and nominees are and I can't listen to that bc I know better.
Lisa, I think we can be kind, take care of ourselves by being as ready as we can be for what might happen, be as proactive as we can be by staying in contact with our legislators, staying up on the news, taking care to keep our body and minds sharp (I just polished off the ice cream! Drat). All of that kind of stuff. I, too, am ignoring trump. I know what he has to say. I have also decided for now not to engage in argument with people who are blind to what is going on. Those discussions about what a good guy trump is are not all that great for the sanity I have left. So, I’m trying to do all that stuff, some days I do better than others. I’m trying to be chill. Actually I’m freezing cold inside (my toes, too) and feeling insecure about what the future holds and if I will be up to the hardships that are coming. The good thing is we’re in this together. Having the camaraderie of everyone on these Bulwark sites sure helps.
Thank you Libby. All great suggestions. I've been doing some of those. (Hershey Kisses instead of ice cream. Lol) Been contacting my Senator and Representatives. Just still have so much anger towards Maga people in the community. Even in my family. 💔😒
We fought the revolution to rid ourselves of a king and his tyranny. We fought WWII to defeat nazis. Why in the world are we turning everything over to a fascist leader and his ilk?
We should not let him take office. Call in the military to guard all of our institutions and prepare. Would we let Hitler take office? Forget the election. Save America from harm. Those in power now, took an oath to protect the constitution. Please protect us from certain harm.
To those who are completely anti-Orange Menace, I show empathy very willingly. Unfortunately, to those who are very pro for this clear and present danger, I am totally jaded. I feel no empathy whatsoever. And when it's time for all of us to say, "We told you so," when they are whining away their discomfiture, I will say my piece and walk away. They refused to listen, to THINK, to change this obsession with this waste of space. Their bed, they made it; now, they can sleep in it.
The sane-washing has already begun. We are in for a rough four years ahead as everyone, including media, capitulates to the orange god. Heaven help this country.
This is not just a 4-year proposition. Those who foolishly thought that 4 years of a "normal" administration would stabilize the country and set us on a positive path now have to face reality. To think that path forward is waiting on the other side of this disaster - however long it may be - is willfully naive.
It makes me SICK that there is no coast-to-coast uproar in the media about Trump's outrageous assertion that the J6 Committee ought to be "jailed."
Corporate “persons” are free to be everything no one would want their child to be.
They are afraid on so many levels, or they are part of the cult.
You are right, Steve, and I appreciate your changed attitude toward military service for your kids if Hegseth is confirmed (shudder). Also wanted to add: didn't we all learn this lesson of World War II and appeasement of a crazed tyrant along with Neville Chamberlain??? Any dreams of "peace in our time" with the orange turd would only lead to all of us being splattered with his foul feces, which he throws around like the spoiled toddler he really is.
I am with you Steve I will not take a step back.
Same here.
Steve, I shared your essay on Facebook and they said it broke Facebook standards. What bullshit! They can show lies of Trump but mentioning Mel Gibson and Hegseth broke standards? What a joke!
I ran into the same problem but got around it by just saying positive statements and recognizing Honorable, Patriotic, Serving military and Veterans. General Mark Milley is my friend on Face book.
That's a good friend to have but maybe not, in Trump's eyes.
Did they specify what “standards” were broken? Short of yelling”fire!” in a crowded theater, I support and defend the first amendment. Perhaps we should start a class action suit. One of my posts was also rejected.
Do we have enough energy to take that on, too? I’m sure willing to be involved with raising money to ensure that the people who spoke up against trump can afford an attorney.
They are part of the cult.
Posting anything on Facebook and trying to educate anyone is like pissing into the wind.
"Over my dead body" is just the right disdain for Trump, Hegseth, and his disgusting troop of desperados.
Thank you Steve. No more will I listen to network MSM trying to whitewash Trump and his co-horts insane nonsense about revenge on lawful investigations of his behavior on January 6.
I'm out, as well!
Steve, You are absolutely correct. If any of my students start taking about joining the military and Hedseth is SECDEF I will do all in my power to dissuade them. I served nearly 40 years in the military and I can be proud of serving our country. If Hegseth becomes SECDEF the military will become a criminal organization used against other countries with no restraint and against our citizens and current allies. If he is not confirmed I will still be concerned by any other Trump nominee. But no one more incompetent and amoral cannot be found. All the best, Steve Dundas
Likewise, we cannot be nice to Trump. He disrespects nice guys more than anyone.
Steve: I'm interested in your opinion as a retired military man. Is it at all possible that the military would stand up to Trump and NOT follow orders if he wants to use them against us? I can't imagine all branches of the military capitulating to that insane piece of crap! Perhaps he would just use the National Guide for his dirty work?
Jennifer, I read an article today in which a general, maybe Milley, said they told one of trump’s guys that the military won’t go along with their rotten plans. He said the troops would defend the constitution. It sounded like a message to the troops and trump. Milley really strikes me as a person who can reason problems out well. He’s also honest and dedicated his life to service. I think he also has earned the respect of the military.
Jennifer, Thank you for your question. I believe that many will follow Trump’s criminal orders. I wrote about the choice they will have to make last night. The link is here: https://dundas.substack.com/p/yes-men-and-no-men-the-coming-choice
Thanks, Steve! I'm happy to read your article. Also...I was afraid you'd say they'd follow Trump's orders. Not good...
Appreciate your thanks, but I am afraid that because many of those in the military and law enforcement were weaned on 40 years of right wing propaganda that they are primed to follow his orders.
All the best, Steve
Oh God, please don't give that rot any ideas.
Are you saying certain parts of the military have not previously been used for criminal activities in other countries? Abu Grad comes to mind and many others…many others! Not that I have any confidence that the military will not be used against civilians in this country in violation of the law.
Abu Ghraib was a war crime. Thankfully some soldiers reported it and those responsible were punished. However, the invasion of Iraq was a violation of numerous international treaties and we tried the Germans for the crime of waging wars of aggression at Nuremberg. I have written about that before, but that was on my legacy site.
All the best, Steve
Thank you for your service to our country. You have my gratitude and respect.
Thank you. All the best.
I envision a time when every Democrat, Independent and Republicans Against Trump will constantly barrage Trump and his sycophants on social media, as well as through the White House, with truth against their constant lies. They can't drag 72 million plus of us off to camps or penalize in some other, equally treacherous way. There absolutely CAN be strength, but also safety in numbers. I will not be cajoled or forced to follow the herd that is dead from the neck up. Over MY dead body!
Good point!
Nice one Steve! WE ARE NOT GOING BACK!
"The new standard is a simple one. Be “nice” to Trump, and he will be nice to you.
This is the wrong path — and the most dangerous one."
The "new standard" is appalling. Kids know instinctively that appeasing the schoolyard bully will likely backfire, since kowtowing usually serves only to embolden the bully and further imperil the victim. The MSM needs to retake Playground 101. And to learn from Liz Cheney, who fired right back at Trump after he threatened on "Meet the Press" yesterday to imprison her and other members of the J6 congressional committee. She called his claims a "threat to the rule of law and the foundations of our republic." Had MSM confronted the Orange Thing head-on in the years after he came down that tacky escalator on June 16, 2015, we would not be facing the abyss today.
In the avalanche of ludicrous and dangerous appointees, and there are too many to keep track of, let’s not go to sleep on Kristi Noem as Secretary of Homeland Security. She is an unserious person who poses a serious threat to all of us.
Excellent point!
Would like you and your supporters know that I am a Vietnam Combat Veteran that served in 69/70 @ Danang. Look it up to See the horrors we faced to protect Global Democracy. Bad decisions were made to make our task far worse. WE Cannot let that happen Again! Every day I have been in contact with Retired Chief of staff Mark Milley who Every true American Patriot should thank God we had a highly Intelligent, Knowledgeable, Experienced Commander that looked over the Safety and Security in the most Professional way possible. My 2 nephews who served in Afghanistan and Iraq sure do. Please support The American Legion, VFW, VA, USO and any other groups that support Active Military and Veterans. Thank you for your support.
I’m thankful for your service on our behalf, Larry. I’m glad you came home. Agree with you about Milley. His reasoning, support of his troops, his willingness to speak truth helps me feel better.
My only hope is that the utter incompetence and eventual in fighting of all the MAGA folks will lead to their downfall. Nylon Tusk is already pushing his way into tRumps territory, that won’t last. As you say, No, No, No to all his current circus picks and then let them eat themselves alive. Who’s keeping an eye on Joe who seems hellbent on saying “It’ll be alright” every chance he gets. Disappointment in the conduct of Merritt, Joe and Shumer doesn’t begin to describe it
My God, the insanity of all this! Let's all have a very joyous holiday season everybody because the raw sh$t is coming Jan 20. I'm with you Steve. Thanks for keeping it real.